Expelled PADI instructor?

[boulderjohn]

Is it just me, or does it disturb anyone else that an Instructor banned by one agency can so easily move to another?

I am really quite surprised.

I know of an instructor who was expelled by NAUI (don't know why) who has been teaching ever since by forming his own bogus agency. I always assumed he formed that agency (the home address of which is a vacant lot) because he could not get legitimate credentials with another agency, but that is apparently not true.

 

[seeker242]

Is it just me, or does it disturb anyone else that an Instructor banned by one agency can so easily move to another?

I'm assuming that they were with both, or more, earlier and afterwards just get expelled by the one. Can't say for sure, but that is most likely the case.

 

[Diver0001]

Is it just me, or does it disturb anyone else that an Instructor banned by one agency can so easily move to another?

It depends on why.

Agencies have different policies. For example, PADI, SSI (GUE?) and some others do not allow an instructor to arbitrarily add material to the course and then test students (and possibly fail them) based on that material. PADI's philosophy is that THEY decide what needs to be taught, not the instructor.

Other agencies (NAUI, SEI, BSAC, CMAS for example) give their instructors a VERY long leash and don't police what is being taught very well, if at all.

PADI's approach has the advantage that it is agency based and very consistent over instructors and geographical regions. It makes their modular system and system of referrals possible. The down side is that some instructors feel (in my opinion erroneously) that they are unable to adequately address local conditions.

The approach of some other agencies is not agency based but instructor based. It has the advantage that outstanding instructors are not hindered by the agency in delivering their best possible course. The disadvantage is that (a) some instructors think they are FAR better than they are, and because delivery is controlled by instructors, they are not limited in the depth of crap they can deliver. and (b) there is no "lowest common denominator" so if you have been trained by instructor X you never know for sure if you're ready to take a course from instructor Y.

So all of this is to say that suppose you were kicked out of PADI because you kept adding skill X to the course. They would try to re-calibrate and re-train you for a while but it's possible that the differences in opinion are unbridgeable and you decided as an instructor that you couldn't live with this limitation. (it is unlikely that PADI would actually kick you out for a difference of opinion. The instructor would usually take the initiative). It is, therefore possible that you could then cross over to NAUI and have a free hand in teaching skill X..... it could be a better match.

There are many examples of such scenarios. All of this is very theoretical.

In most cases an instructor who has been banned (regardless of agency) has either done something very serious, very unethical, very unprofessional or illegal. In other words, regardless of agency, the agency must have felt that they had no other choice for either their own legal protection or for the protection of students.

R..

 

[beanojones]

I wonder how many people who know expelled instructors are on the annual 200/300 lists, or know people on both lists.

I know people in those lists every year, and I know people on the expelled/suspended lists every year. Hell, I taught at a place where as I discovered later one third of the 25 instrcutors were on QA suspensions at any given time. They were still teaching classroom, doing pool sessions, and dives 1,2, and 4. And someone not suspended/expelled would sweep in for dive 5.

The shop in general was turning out over 5k OW students a year though.

It is far easier to get expelled from PADI than from other agencies because of the nature of the PADI "Membership" in which a PADI member is a member of the training agency in the same way a gym goer is a "member" of the gym.

As in, not really a member just someone paying to play.

 

[christieball]

If someone is expelled from PADI it is generally for a teaching standards violation, or a safety issue. It's used as a last resort by the agency.

 

[beanojones]

If someone is expelled from PADI it is generally for a teaching standards violation, or a safety issue. It's used as a last resort by the agency.

How many people do you know who have been involved in a QA, been suspended, or been expelled?

Frankly if you don't need PADI, and some people's business models don't, it's just not worth it to deal with their QA 'system.' It's a huge time suck, and is completely arbitrary, with the usual underlying reason for expulsion being PADI wants to separate liability issues.

Several instructors following standards at the time of the incident have been expelled by PADI so that PADI could isolate themselves from the fallout from a failure of the standards to ensure safety. The standards that PADI put in place.

For most working instrcutors, the business aspect is clear. Stores and facilities are almost never punished, and members always are. But anyone who works in the business knows that the safety problems come from what stores and operations are deciding, not what instructors are deciding.

I have this discussion with the PADI all the time, and they just say it is the instructors job to follow standards. Which is basically plugging their ears and saying "I am not listening JEFFREY, NAH NAH NAH".

You will never have safety when instrcutors are allowed to work on visas which tie them to one specific operation. We used to call indentured servitude by its name. Now we call it H-2 visas.

 

[OldNSalty]

We're issuing work visas for SCUBA instructors?

 

[OldNSalty]

Being a software engineer I know a little something about the visa programs but I never dreamed they would be used for recreational jobs...what a stupid program.

 

[The Chairman]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Personal feud posts removed.
If you feel your honor has been unfairly impugned: please use the report post function rather than silt out the thread.

---

 

[TMHeimer]

H-2 visa. What's that? Is this something needed to work in the U.S. or for a non resident of any country to teach scuba in that country?