Eel Attack in Cozumel (The Feeding of Lionfish)

[GoAnywherePhoto]

I can assure you that taking lionfish home to eat is more problematic than killing them and leaving them. I have been rushed by eels three times here in Cuba and each time it was because I had some fish on a stringer, mostly lionfish. I never got bit though one did chase me 15 feet vertical from the reef nipping at my fins a couple times before retreating.

Other times when I have have not been carrying fish with me I have had no issues, but I am not saying this had any bearing on your expierience.

Although some people here have fed lionfish to the eels here, most people just spear them, kill them and leave them where they drop. The scavengers and predators will find them - no need to make yourself the source of the food. The dive ops there may have created just such an association.

 

[DandyDon]

No need to google seach, there is a thread here on SB not long ago about another SB member who wrote the course and got it approved. If you search SB for Padi Lionfish it will come up. I would post the link but I have no clue how to.

Copy the url in the address bar, paste it into a post.

 

[tddfleming]

Copy the url in the address bar, paste it into a post.

Like this??

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/364066-lionfish-awareness-elimination.html

But I wanted just the very clean blue link like I see other do. I can't figure it out, I have spent over 1/2 hour on this and still can't do what I want to do.

Never mind it did it when I posted it. Wow!!!!

Thanks Dandy

 

[DandyDon]

Yeah we used to have to do more, and there are ways to insert the hyperlink into changed titles, they have it down to pretty much automatic now.

 

[ReeferBen]

Besides wasn't there a recent post where some lionfish meat was coming back toxic to eat? So taking them to eat might be a bad choice. Course can't find the link to where I read that.

 

[SoccerJeni]

I guess I'm a little confused here...and I admit I'm new, and I have a lot to learn. But, I don't understand where the OP did anything wrong? I mean, we weren't there, we don't know all the circumstances of what happened and how she felt. I can tell you what, if a freaking eel (which I'm a little nervous of anyway) comes and bites me and draws blood, I'm ending the dive. That's the end of that. I agree if you're unsure of what your physical reaction is going to be, then there is no reason to hang around trying to find out. So, I don't get it.

Besides it feels a little awkward to sit here under no stress in my nice comfy chair and to judge her actions while in the middle of distress... Though, I know we should learn something from situations...so....

*Edit* What would be worse, I believe, is if the OP came here to post an Accident thread where she decided not to do a CEA (or CESA, whichever) and ended up having an allergic reaction and had a more serious injury as a result of not leaving the water immediately.

 

[tddfleming]

Besides wasn't there a recent post where some lionfish meat was coming back toxic to eat? So taking them to eat might be a bad choice. Course can't find the link to where I read that.

I have not heard that one yet, are you sure it was lionfish and not fugu?? I had bought my daughter the Reef Lionfish cookbook because that is all she was talking about, was eating them. But being in VA, easier said than done. But I had thought I solved the problem, as I was driving by a market and I thought the sign board said "Lionfish" Oh boy, I thought, I can go buy some and we have the cookbook. Well, can you say I misread the sign (not sure how I could have done that while driving past it at 45 mph, but I did). The sign actully read, "Live Fish" So now I sit here with a cookbook for lionfish and no lionfish for the cookbook. My daughter was pretty excited about us going to buy lionfish, but then I had to tell her I misread the sign but we could get live fish. Just not the same.

 

[tddfleming]

I have a friend named Oscar that I get to feed regularly. I've had the joy of being up close and personal with Oscar. I've had him wrap around my hear like turban. He'll hold onto your leg for leverage.

I've never heard about a Green Moray being toxic, in terms of venom. I have heard that their mouths are loaded with bacteria. I will indeed ask the aquarist about this.

What I do know about the Green Moray is they have long thin teeth, they have poor eye site, and they have a pharyngeal jaw. The have a mouth inside their mouth and that mouth has teeth. Think of alien from Aliens.

If you are bit by a Green Moray, and likely other eels as well, you're likely going to get bit on the hand and it is easy for those teeth to hit tendons.

When we are feeding Oscar and Felix, yes, 'The Odd Couple', we are very, very, very conscience of where our hands and fingers are.

Oscar, more so than Felix, knows that the divers bring him food. We have tasty mackerel, squid, shrimp, and smelt for him. 90% of the time when he sees you with that little black back, he comes to you.

We've been feeding him his whole life and we've never had a problem of a diver getting bit. We trained them to feed from a pole or to put their head in the bag and take what they want.

With that said, I'm not going to ever feed one in the wild. Oscar and Felix are well feed. We keep them well feed so they don't eat the rest of the exhibit.

If in the wild one were ever to come up to me like Oscar does, I'm going to let them swim and go where they want to go. I'm going to ball up my hands and keep them away from their head. They're going to poke around and swim off when they realize you're not food and don't have any.

You are a diver at the Baltimore Aquarium? I saw one of them when we came into town for the dive show.

 

[joyceschur]

To TSandM:

[I don't always agree with Dumpster Diver, but I find myself doing that in this case.

Dumpster Diver wasn't there, doesn't have all the details, and overstated a few things. I guess someone who's been bit by eels many times and admits to being a dumb ass likes a little drama.

To begin with, I see a bit of inconsistency between your decision to what sounds like bolt for the surface because you were injured, and your annoyance with a DM who was distracted with his own lionfish sting. At least he stayed underwater with his group, even if his attention was not entirely on them.

I never described "a bolt to the surface", I said it was a controlled emergency ascent. And yes, I'm annoyed; if the PAID guide would've been guiding the dive instead of spearing/filleting/feeding all those lionfish, he wouldn't have been stung in the first place. Let me be clear, this was not one of those entertainment-type feed dives that some operators offer, this was supposed to be a standard reef dive by a reputable dive shop. There's a final bit of irony to this story: the guide did try to stay underwater with the group despite his pain; he didn't last much longer than me. In the end, he also aborted with a controlled emergency ascent and skipped the safety stop.

Secondly, you and I clearly differ in what we expect from a dive guide. I want the guide to help me follow the route, if the area is unfamiliar and the navigation is complex, and I hope that his familiarity with local conditions will allow him to point out interesting critters I might otherwise miss. I don't depend on the guide for anything related to safety during a dive. I dive with a buddy, and intend to handle any issues that come up during the dive with the assistance of that buddy, which is what you did. What more did you want from the DM?

As noted, I didn't depend on him for safety, but the "what more" I expected was for him to do what he was paid to do. Let me ask you something, since you're SB staff and an Assimilated Medical Mod: Let's say you are the paid guide. Someone in the group is bit by an eel, exhibiting symptoms of pain, flashing a "not OK" sign and has substantive bleeding. Do you just shrug your shoulders or are you planning to at least swim over and access the situation? Let's try this a different way: Let's say you pay $130 for a guided dive with your son or daughter. The guide is a camera buff. He's so busy taking photos he doesn't notice your kid gets bit by an eel...but hey, you're a calm, collected and experienced buddy, so you're entirely capable of handling the situation. You aren't the least bit bothered by this scenario?

Pain is unpleasant, but (having had a great deal of experience with this) it is manageable, and one can remain both calm and functional in the face of quite a bit of it. When you are deep under the water, controlling your initial impulses is an extremely important part of safety.

I love it when someone cites their "great deal of experience with pain" in order to pass judgment on what others ought to be able to handle. DD used that same logic. Your "great deal of experience" never qualifies you to gauge the subjective level of someone else's pain level or ability to manage. When you're deep underwater, injured to the point that you don't have full control of your gear because of the nature or location of the injury, have significant bleeding, are concerned about passing out or having an adverse reaction (and to top it all off, you've got a guide who's too busy hunting lionfish to pay attention to his group) the safest, most intelligent choice is a controlled emergency ascent. That’s what I said I did. And fortunately, I had a buddy who was able to assist.

 

[drdaddy]

By "filleting" I mean that after the lionfish had been speared, a knife was employed to remove spines and further section the fish.

And here's a PS: Immediately after the attack, I made a CEA (not knowing if venom was involved or if I was at risk for losing consciousness). So besides the wound, I was also at risk for DCI. The hired guide, who'd been stung by a lionfish spine and was totally preoccupied, wasn't even aware of my situation.

Fortunately, an experienced dive buddy was sharp enough to dump air from my BCD. Taking control of my gear and the ascent, he made sure I was breathing and got me safely to surface

I consider myself lucky: there was no venom, no loss of consciousness, no stitches, no DCI, and the biggest concern was systemic infection. Thanks to all who expressed concern. I'm fine, but just want to raise awareness about the inappropriate aspects of this incident.

I'm so glad to hear you're OK, and want to thank you for sharing this. All of us want to see the demise of the lionfish (except in the Red Sea/Indian Ocean & places where it's suppose to be). While I understand the intention of the Cozumel diveguides, it certainly would be better if they understood better how to train eels and other fish to go after the lionfish and not divers.

Thank you again - I really think that your thread will lead to more appropriate action at Cozumel and other locations.

P.S. Sorry you are getting some flack from others - it seems like they are hijacking your thread by criticizing your actions. But, don't get too defensive, let TS&M & DD help you (and others) think through/evaluate your response to the eel bite. But, at the same time, I hope we don't get away from the real issue of "what is the proper procedure" of ridding ourselves of unwanted lionfish and encouraging the local predators to attack lionfish and not divers!