Eel Attack in Cozumel (The Feeding of Lionfish)

[oly5050user]

Because a "controlled emergency ascent" is an emergency procedure. It's getting to the surface as fast as possible without blowing a lung. That's why every single agency teaches CESA as a "blow and go" operation. If someone has hold of you, is dumping your air, comunicating with you and controlling your ascent, it's no longer an emergency operation. It's a just a regular controlled ascent without a safety stop.

Yes a CESA is an emergency procedure.It is not about getting to the surface fast as possible.Its about getting to the surface in a safe controlled manner as to lessen any chances of lung expansion injuries. In a recreational dive situation ,I would not worry too much about DCI as you would be in limits and a DCI hit is something that can be treated. Drowning cannot be fixed,lung expansion injury can be very serious. "blow and go" option is so dangerous to that is it no longer considered a safe option for PADI or any agency I teach for.Who recommends "blow and go"???.Maybe 30 years ago , but not today. Also if someone has to have a "hold of you" and dump your air, and control your ascent, really doing everything for you because you are panicked or lost all control of your abilities, it most absolutely is a emergency operation for all involved.Why is not a alternate air source used if there is someone there to assist in holding you and dumping your air?? .. If there is someone there just perform a simple alternate air source ascent ,complete with a safety stop ,if the dive dictated it.That also is considered an emergency.. Anything else but a safe enjoyable dive, with no incidents, is considered unsafe and an emergency.

 

[Ayisha]

Gee, do you think he could have been waiting for his next "free meal"?

Those pictures were taken in January 2003 and, as I stated, I did not see anyone feeding eels or any other marine life nor did I take part in any feeding. We simply happened upon the eel basking in the sun and it stayed there for quite a while.

I posted the pics in relation to the comments that an eel would never be exposed unless it is being fed, not as a comment on feeding. Eels can and do come out during the day at times - not often, but they do. In regard to feeding marine creatures, I do not believe this is a good idea for all the reasons mentioned in this thread and shark feeding threads in the past.

 

[Ayisha]

...If someone has hold of you, is dumping your air, comunicating with you and controlling your ascent, it's no longer an emergency operation. It's a just a regular controlled ascent without a safety stop.

No. That is called a training dive prior to certification.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

.....Dumpster Diver – since you know an eel bite “hurts like hell”, you might consider that excessive pain and bleeding affected my ability to a) fully control my own gear and b) access the severity of the injury - it felt and looked worse than it was, but clearly I don’t possess your EXTENSIVE and superior experience with eels. I think, however, that an instructor who's been "bit several times" and believes "eel bites aren't unusual" lacks more credibility than a DM who doesn’t know if morays are toxic (turns out they are, even without venom, which accounts for the unusual amount of pain and bleeding). Where, other than dumpsters, do you dive or is PADI offering a new specialty course I haven’t heard about?

Glad we agree that feeding predators is problematic.

You indicated the eel bite required no stitches. To me, that should not be an emergency that requires an "emergency ascent" from a DM. My point is that there are many worse injuries that can occur underwater and running for the surface in such a wild panic that you are unable to operate your gear is not a desirable response. I get bit because I stick my hands in holes to get lobster and also to retrieve fish. Just because I'm a dumb ass, doesn't mean you didn't act like one on that particular dive.

Ideally we should be mentally prepared for foreseable accidents (such as an eel bite) and making an emergency ascent is often not the best option.

I also found it kinda funny that you complained that the DM/guide did not provide you his undivided attention (even though he had been stung by a lionfish). I've not yet been stung by one of those fish yet, but I fully expect it to happen sooner or later and I doubt I will be performing an emergency ascent unless I exhibit some systemic symptoms. Will you be running for the surface if that happens?

 

[Chuckitall]

Actually in Jupiter, Fl, we kill Lionfish on almost every dive. You've got too. They are overrunning the reefs here. We kill them, handle them and bring them up for food. The DM's in Coz should be feeding their families with all of them. They are great to eat. Last year I observed 2 lbers in 140 ft of water, plenty of meat for food. I have been hit 4 or 5 times, but have never aborted a dive yet and after hot water got right back in for a dive. I have also been bitten several times by Eels while reaching into holes. Yes, my choice. I know alot of divers want to leave the poor little LF alone, but spend some time checking their stomachs and you will realize they eat everything. The DM's need to carry shears, cut off spines and eat the LF. BTW, the DM's are in a catch 22 in Coz. Coz wants them removed, but doesn't want tourists helping out. I'm a working DM and you tell me how a DM can always know what is going on with 10 divers all over the place. Whenever something happens, you always hear the DM shouda/couda. Too many people are DM's, but have never worked a day on a boat guiding divers.

 

[TCDiver1]

It is a fact that fish use "cooperative hunting" techniques to get food. They follow large animals around hoping for scraps or that the large animal will scare something up they can catch and eat. Humans have been "feeding" things in the ocean with their activity around and in the ocean since way before our ancestors first had a sentient thought, so a goal of "no feeding" seems a bit counter to nature's ways.
I'll settle for "no dinner rolls"
Rick

I gotta agree with Ricks sentiment here. When we first starting going to Coz, over 20 years ago, feeding eels was commonplace and usually occured on every dive where eels were present. Many DM's actually brought food on dives for just that purpose. DM's getting bit was rare from what i saw (never saw it happen) and no one from our group ever got hit.

Feeding and handling of eels was more or less universally stopped somewhere in the 90's in Coz. I don't know the real reasons but i always suspected they were more out of conservation than out of necessity from DM's and customers getting bit. DM's and people were feeding them everything cheap and easy. Banannas peels, hot dogs, cheese, whatever would fit in a BC pocket.

The feeding ban was a really good thing in that sense.

 

[vladimir]

I know alot of divers want to leave the poor little LF alone, but spend some time checking their stomachs and you will realize they eat everything.

Really? There seems to be a pretty broad consensus here on Scubaboard that invasive lionfish should be killed.

 

[joyceschur]

DD - that's the thing about hindsight, it's always 20/20. But I hardly think a “controlled” ascent can be described as “wild panic” and it was pain, not panic, that made it difficult to handle my gear.

What’s “kinda funny” about your comments, is you concede the possibility that you might “exhibit some systemic symptoms” after being bit or stung. So if you recognize a diver might have a sudden, severe allergic response or go into shock, what’s really dumb-ass is the idea that you’d wait-see if that happens. Does “ideal mental preparation” mean I should take the underwater risk of “gee, let’s see if I feel like I’m gonna pass out before aborting this dive?”

I’m taking your dumb ass award and giving it to the “professional” guide who was PAID to be a guide and was dumb ass enough to get stung while lionfish hunting on everyone else's dime.

Chuckitall – I’m not averse to hunting lionfish for human consumption. Cozumel charges divers a marine park fee; they can just as easily charge a nominal daily fee for a lionfish elimination program to protect the reef. But please don’t suggest that it’s professional or prudent for a hired guide to be preoccupied with hunting lionfish while he’s being paid by customers to lead a dive.

I have worked as a DM; I agree you can’t always know what’s going on with 10 divers all over the place. But if a PAID guide is so busy hunting lionfish (and enough of a moron to get himself stung while doing it) that he doesn’t notice a client exhibiting symptoms of distress or flashing the “I’m not OK” signal, then he has no business working in a position of leadership and responsibility… and then getting paid for it.

More importantly, is it smart to intentionally de-spine/fillet/feed lionfish remains to reef eels on popular dive sites? Because I think the eels are being conditioned to view divers as feeders, and that’s a potentially dangerous situation.

Now here’s something we can all laugh about: I just found out that PADI has approved a “lionfish hunter specialty course”. No joke, run a Google search!

 

[TSandM]

I don't always agree with Dumpster Diver, but I find myself doing that in this case.

To begin with, I see a bit of inconsistency between your decision to what sounds like bolt for the surface because you were injured, and your annoyance with a DM who was distracted with his own lionfish sting. At least he stayed underwater with his group, even if his attention was not entirely on them.

Secondly, you and I clearly differ in what we expect from a dive guide. I want the guide to help me follow the route, if the area is unfamiliar and the navigation is complex, and I hope that his familiarity with local conditions will allow him to point out interesting critters I might otherwise miss. I don't depend on the guide for anything related to safety during a dive. I dive with a buddy, and intend to handle any issues that come up during the dive with the assistance of that buddy, which is what you did. What more did you want from the DM?

Pain is unpleasant, but (having had a great deal of experience with this) it is manageable, and one can remain both calm and functional in the face of quite a bit of it. When you are deep under the water, controlling your initial impulses is an extremely important part of safety.

 

[tddfleming]

DD - that's the thing about hindsight, it's always 20/20. But I hardly think a “controlled” ascent can be described as “wild panic” and it was pain, not panic, that made it difficult to handle my gear.

What’s “kinda funny” about your comments, is you concede the possibility that you might “exhibit some systemic symptoms” after being bit or stung. So if you recognize a diver might have a sudden, severe allergic response or go into shock, what’s really dumb-ass is the idea that you’d wait-see if that happens. Does “ideal mental preparation” mean I should take the underwater risk of “gee, let’s see if I feel like I’m gonna pass out before aborting this dive?”

I’m taking your dumb ass award and giving it to the “professional” guide who was PAID to be a guide and was dumb ass enough to get stung while lionfish hunting on everyone else's dime.

Chuckitall – I’m not averse to hunting lionfish for human consumption. Cozumel charges divers a marine park fee; they can just as easily charge a nominal daily fee for a lionfish elimination program to protect the reef. But please don’t suggest that it’s professional or prudent for a hired guide to be preoccupied with hunting lionfish while he’s being paid by customers to lead a dive.

I have worked as a DM; I agree you can’t always know what’s going on with 10 divers all over the place. But if a PAID guide is so busy hunting lionfish (and enough of a moron to get himself stung while doing it) that he doesn’t notice a client exhibiting symptoms of distress or flashing the “I’m not OK” signal, then he has no business working in a position of leadership and responsibility… and then getting paid for it.

More importantly, is it smart to intentionally de-spine/fillet/feed lionfish remains to reef eels on popular dive sites? Because I think the eels are being conditioned to view divers as feeders, and that’s a potentially dangerous situation.

Now here’s something we can all laugh about: I just found out that PADI has approved a “lionfish hunter specialty course”. No joke, run a Google search!

No need to google seach, there is a thread here on SB not long ago about another SB member who wrote the course and got it approved. If you search SB for Padi Lionfish it will come up. I would post the link but I have no clue how to.