Eel Attack in Cozumel (The Feeding of Lionfish)

[fire_diver]

Umm...let's see... When I am under the water...
Arterial blood looks green.
Venous blood looks green.
Capillary blood looks.....green.

The green cloud makes it sorta hard to see if it is spurting or if it is just sorta' oozing or seeping. I think I'm gonna be sick... :yuck:

I'm sorry, but I would have trouble telling the difference at 40 feet under water, especially if it were MY blood. Guess I need to take my medical school course over again.

Yes, you probably should take the course over again. You apparently have never been around anythign more than capillary bleeding if you cant tell the difference, above or below water.

 

[Chuckitall]

My buddy who invented the Liontamer to kill Lionfish, last Sat fed 100 people LF during an important fund raiser for the reefs. This occurred in Jupiter and nobody got sick or died. Give it a break, LF are as healthy to eat as any other reef fish. Joyce, you probably are a good diver, but depending on DM's to be a babysitter is not the kind of diving I like. You will find that when you step up to more adventurous dives, it's the dive briefing that is the most important part of their job. Next time in COZ go do Barracuda during a ripping current and see if you can even stay with a DM.

 

[terrylowe]

Yes, you probably should take the course over again. You apparently have never been around anythign more than capillary bleeding if you cant tell the difference, above or below water.

"At least I know what I don't know." Just looked at your sig line. Your philosophy certainly doesn't keep your from commenting about what you don't know.

 

[TSandM]

I'm sorry, but I would have trouble telling the difference at 40 feet under water, especially if it were MY blood. Guess I need to take my medical school course over again.

One of my favorite lines to quote is one from Sabiston's textbook of surgery: "You can put your thumb over the end of a garden hose and stop the water. No vessel in the body contains that kind of pressure." The great thing about bleeding in the extremities is that they are beautifully accessible for direct pressure (which it sounds like the OP was doing). Remember, we are talking about an area of damage the size of a moray's mouth! Even an arterial puncture would a) be unlikely to bleed enough to endanger the patient, and b) be easily controlled with direct pressure. We stick needles in arteries all the time.

I do not expect the average layman to know this, mind you, but a medical professional ought to.

 

[cruiser]

When I was a new diver and first dove Cozumel, I paid a divemaster to be my personal babysitter, and he did not disappoint. He was attentive and constantly by my side. If this is what you expect from a DM, request it from the dive op ahead of time and they will accommodate you for an addition charge which was nominal IIRC.

 

[merxlin]

I've watched this from the start and feel I must jump in. A couple of points:

Much was made about an emergency ascent, yet all the experts who called her on it should have realized that as long as she had a reg in her mouth and had air, it was not a CESA. It was a controlled ascent to the surface. Bad description, but the right action. She called the dive.

As she was using her right hand to control the bleeding in her left, I can see where she would have had difficulty venting her BC. She didn't say she was in an uncontrolled ascent and had to be caught and restrained, just that an alert buddy was able to vent for her and take control of the ascent. That is a basic taught in rescue classes. It allowed her to keep control of the bleeding.

There is a video showing a diver losing a thumb to a Morey (while feeding it hot dogs). Seeing the lack of blood in that video, It is hard to imagine the damage was a s great as it was. Extreme pain and that green cloud is enough to get your adrenalin going. And given that she is from an inland area, I have no idea what she knows about saltwater sea life. I'm on a boat tomorrow and I will bet more people than not think eels are venomous.

I agree DM's are not in the water in most areas as a dive buddy. They can't be 8-10 buddies at once. If he had been leading the dive and just far enough in front to not see what happened, the result would have been the same regardless of what he was doing. You control you on a dive, and hopefully your buddy can help out if needed (as this one did).

My point here is that we are quick to point fingers and try to criticize others, and for what reason? If it is to help them understand what they may have done that could be improved, then watch how you phase it. Attacking them is not going to get the results you say you are trying to achieve.

 

[Karibelle]

I've watched this from the start and feel I must jump in. A couple of points:

Much was made about an emergency ascent, yet all the experts who called her on it should have realized that as long as she had a reg in her mouth and had air, it was not a CESA. It was a controlled ascent to the surface. Bad description, but the right action. She called the dive.

Do you think CESAs are done without a reg?

Sigh. Did I really get dragged back into this? :cool2:

And I reread the original post. I don't think she ever said she was requiring babysitting from her DM, just indicated that she had professional concerns with a DM diverting his attention from his group by engaging in hunting. To the OP, for what it's worth, I agree with you - the DM is there to do a job, whether it is blithely leading a dive, pointing out an occasional critter, or full-on babysitting. When I dive with a DM, I do not expect him to be hunting. That's inappropriate in my mind, and after one dive I would question the DM on that topic. It is potentially dangerous maybe, but more to the point for ME when I'm diving, it's BORING. I don't care how great you are with your spear, just get on with the dive. Of any of the numerous things I might have paid for when embarking on a guided dive, watching you hunt was not one of those things. Mind you, when lionfish were FIRST spotted here in Coz, and hunting with bags was all the rage, I did enjoy assisting the DM with a catch by herding the fish... perhaps that's how it got boring.

kari

 

[Johnoly]

I'm really much more interested in your opinions about hired guides who are now spending a considerable amount of time lionfish hunting to the point of unprofessional inattentiveness.

In Coz it's the law you have to have a DM. A DM is not your extra air supply, not your safety net, and not your body guard. If the eel was close enough to bite you, then maybe you should address the question of why you were too close to the reef if the eel could reach you and not 20 feet above with other divers inbetween you and the eel?

And like DD & Chuckitall, I hunt and had 3 eel bites and 4 lionfish stings in the last year, you won't like our heart pounding dive area.

 

[islandwheels]

What you say makes sense, of course I'm getting in late to this thread and haven't read hardly any of them but all I can contribute is that I've run into large ones often and never have been bit, I mean just the thickness of the mask glass away when looking for lobster, looking eye to eye, but I wasn't feeding them and had a speargun as well. Also I found pelicans like lionfish when thrown to them. How did you fix that eel for dinner by the way?

 

[Sue Sue]

One of my favorite lines to quote is one from Sabiston's textbook of surgery: "You can put your thumb over the end of a garden hose and stop the water. No vessel in the body contains that kind of pressure." The great thing about bleeding in the extremities is that they are beautifully accessible for direct pressure (which it sounds like the OP was doing). Remember, we are talking about an area of damage the size of a moray's mouth! Even an arterial puncture would a) be unlikely to bleed enough to endanger the patient, and b) be easily controlled with direct pressure. We stick needles in arteries all the time.

I do not expect the average layman to know this, mind you, but a medical professional ought to.

You make a very good point and I certainly respect your professional input and understand the technical logic here. However, as a nurse with 32 years experience I know logic does not always apply. For instance, as medical professionals we have all seen it happen time and time again when the saying of " The bigger they are, the harder they fall" comes into play. Not everyone responds the same way or how you think they should respond to a medical situation. No amount of reason is going to change some patients response. After considering all that was happening with the OP, an unprovoked eel bite, bleeding any amount in the water, subjective pain, not knowing what type of damage was done, perhaps fear and an adrenaline rush and needing or wanting to go to the surface quickly yet as safely as possible, I honestly empathize with her.

Overall, I think there have been many constructive and informative points made in this thread, especially any constructive discussion related to the pro's and con's of lionfish hunting, marine life behaviour and the role of a hired DM. Unfortunately some comments have been insensitive as well, but we just need to ignore those.