Eel Attack in Cozumel (The Feeding of Lionfish)

[Peter Guy]

Joyce --

How about loss of consciousness from shock or adverse allergic reaction? How about excessive blood loss? If you took the Nitrox specialty, perhaps you’ll remember the possibility of underwater convulsions.

Your issues:

a. You did not have a loss of consciousness from any cause.

b. You did not have excessive blood loss.

c. You did not tox.

d. You were not out of air.

A heart attack while underwater may well be something "more than an inconvenience" (as happened to a friend who's ashes I spread a while ago) -- but you didn't have a heart attack either.

A "well known Instructor" said to me a couple of days ago, rebreathers are safer than OC because they give you time -- this, of course, is the same thinking supporting the statement (made partially tongue in cheek) that the only true UW Emergency is being Out Of Air -- everything else is an "inconvenience." Once you got over the immediate shock of the bite (and having had traumatic events happen to me, I really do understand the immediacy of the shock and the "Oh Sh**t" moments) you had plenty of time to compose yourself and make the direct ascent to the surface. (I still don't know why you insist on calling it an "Emergency" ascent -- it was merely a direct ascent with no stop -- how was it different from any other no-stop direct ascent other than you weren't able to manage your own life support gear?)

The biggest issue still seems to me to be that you are unable and unwilling to accept any critique of your actions. THAT should give you pause as a "professional" -- it certainly would give me concern for any DM that was working for me.

BTW -- regarding an ox-tox -- You do know that the "emergency" isn't the convulsions but that the convulsing diver will likely lose her regulator and that once the convulsions are over, she will start to breathe again but without a regulator in her mouth. This, of course, IS the "one and only true Emergency" -- i.e., not having air (gas) to breathe while underwater.

 

[Zieg]

I love arm chair quarterbacks.

I once had a remora bite me on the ear. My wife called the dive because of the large green cloud eminating from the injury. It wasn't til we got back in the boat were we able to see that the injury was a series of deep scratches. On the surface it didn't appear to be that big an injury but underwater it appeared real bad because of the amount of blood. Personally, I don't believe that underwater is the best place to determine the extent of the injury. I believe that joyceschur made the correct decision to surface. she applied pressure with her free hand and she had a good buddy who surfaced safely with her, lending assistance where needed. I know from experience that an eel bite is extremely tramatic and can cause some serious damage resulting in alot of blood, making it hard to determine the extent of the wound, whether or not stitches are ever needed.

As for the DiveMaster, I aggree with joyceschur, dude should have been paying attention to his divers and not feeding the fish.

 

[Reef Tank]

Maybe we need a new PADI course; DM Orientation, where the divers tell the DMs what is expected. If the divers start telling the tour guides what is expected the DMs might get their heads out of the cracks. The human buoys could spend their own time on safari if they are bored with the customers.

 

[W8less]

Dear J,

Hope everything works out for you and don't forget the pigs like it (mud wrest:boxing:ling)

 

[Easdem]

This is what happens when you feed Eels....Check it out.

Moray Attack! Video

 

[joyceschur]

Oh Peter Guy, let's not quibble about words and semantics when you've just implied loss of consciousness isn't an issue until it actually happens. That was the chief concern precisely because I do know regulators tend to fall out of mouths in such circumstances. You're obviously articulate and intelligent - surely you recognize that intense pain can lead to shock which can lead to loss of consciousness. And certainly you wouldn't suggest I wait for that to happen so it could be deemed an emergency according to your definition?

Here's a peace offering: I made a C.A.P.E. Controlled Ascent because of Potential Emergency.

Don't concern yourself with my response to critique. This isn't a professional forum, I don't get paid to write for ScubaBoard. It seems to me the critque-ers know how to dish it out quite well, but don't like it much if their own ignorance, inaccuracies and errors are noted.

I'm really much more interested in your opinions about hired guides who are now spending a considerable amount of time lionfish hunting to the point of unprofessional inattentiveness. And do you think it's a good idea to de-spine/fillet lionfish and create artificial feeding conditions for eels. Do you think it's remotely possible that these eels are being conditioned to view divers as feeders, which might lead to increased eel attacks on divers?

 

[TSandM]

intense pain can lead to shock which can lead to loss of consciousness.

This is actually not true. Intense pain can lead to a vagal response that can cause nausea, vomiting, and even brief loss of consciousness, due to slowing of the heart rate. But this is not shock. Blood loss can cause shock, and so can venoms or allergic reactions (eg. to jellyfish stings). Shock is a condition of inadequate blood supply to organs and tissues, and pain doesn't cause it.

(Yes, I know I'm nitpicking here, but it's very common for laymen to say, "I was in shock," when what they mean was that they were emotionally upset or stunned by the experience. It's a common misuse of the word.)

 

[Peter Guy]

OK, I get it, the OP, as a result of this extraordinary event, was in so much pain that she was afraid she would pass out from either the "shock" (with a nod towards TSandM) or from a toxin that was maybe injected into her body. Got it.

Yep. An emergency. Got to get to the surface.

Joyce -- excellent response to this situation. Kudos to you for handling it so well.

Regarding the hunting and feeding -- As I have said earlier, I don't know if this is the right thing to do -- and apparently, neither do you nor anyone else.

Regarding the role of a Dive Guide -- they guide, they don't babysit -- at least that is my POV.

 

[joyceschur]

OK. Definite vagal response with perceived threat of shock from blood loss. I felt blacking out was a possibility, and thus C.A.P.E., a controlled ascent because of potential emergency, with buddy assistance.

And now... should we all sign up for the PADI lionfish elimination specialty course and how do we dispose of the remains?

 

[dwhthediver]

JoyceSchur,
Glad that your injuries weren't debilitating, not questioning calling the dive, that is a good decision based on what happened, and it seems to have come down to semantics, ending the dive doing a normal ascent with buddy assistance due to your injury...right choice, CESA...WRONG choice, you had gas on your back right? I have been part of too many in water dive emergency response teams to question your response to your injury, BUT if there are 10 divers in a group,shoul the divemaster stay with the 8 while you and your buddy surface, OR abort everyone's dive so you feel you are properly cared for? I have worked as DM on boats, and I will tell you now, my response would have been to stop the group and send you up with your buddy, while shepherding the other divers till the end of the dive, but then you would have lambasted me for not shepherding you. I don't expect much from vacation area DM's and am seldom let down.