Eagles Nest Cave Diver Death

[deepstops]

Were these divers cave certified? What agency?

No. No cave certs means no agency.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Using the 1-he method they would have an END of 230ft when the dil was fresh but would breath the O2 down to an END of 222ft
If we assumed END was a function of PPN2 then he would have a END of 162 to start but the END would rise to 173 when the O2 was metabolised to a 1.2 setpoint.

a small here, as the change in END is pretty minimal in this mishap regardless of your calculation method, but worth a little side track I think. Aside from the lipid solubility/tissue level titre measurements for oxygen supporting its likely narcotic contribution, my personal experience is that I can't tell any difference between nitrox and air at any depth, but that even a little helium makes a big difference.
I'd be willing to bet that if you tried switching from EAN 36 to Nitrox 10 at 110' you'd notice no difference, but if you went from either of those to 10/26 you would notice a considerable clearing of the old noggin.
Reckon I'll have to mix a little of those up & give it a shot just for grins & giggles.
end
Rick

 

[Dive-aholic]

This has no bearing on the instructor though. They were not CCR Trimix certified nor CCR Cave certified.

What this says is that they took and assumed the responsibility of the risks associated with diving beyond their personal experience and limits.

No instructor can be held responsible for former students who chose to do what they pleased instead of doing the right thing.

If I died on a CCR, would you mention my OWSI? or my OC Tech instructor?

Different circumstances. I stated supposedly their Advanced Wreck instructor took them to EN to do at least one advanced wreck training dive there. They are/were not cave trained. That instructor is not a cave instructor. However, by taking them there the message that it's okay to dive here without cave training is being sent.

 

[BabyDuck]

the thing i keep thinking is how angry i am at this. you know, when someone with cave cert dies, like bruce or richard, it is sad & we try to glean reminders of what to do or not to do, and shake our heads.

but this or the wayne's world ones just piss me off! i get so angry that these people of normal intelligence & some advanced diving education think that actual overheads are something to play chicken with! argh! smart people acting stupid makes me mad. like standing on the hood of a moving car or something, like in 'footloose'. how can you not think that cave diving when you don't know what you're doing is not a good idea?

well, folks, in case you haven't heard, cave diving when you don't know what you're doing is not a good idea. now don't make me feel mad like this again, ok? ok.

 

[Rick Murchison]

...well, folks, in case you haven't heard, cave diving when you don't know what you're doing is not a good idea...

Problem is, you have to know enough to know you don't know what you're doing.
And that's why the old saw "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" rings true all too often; that's why the "he wasn't cave trained, but he was a diving instructor" is one of the broken records (for those who are post-vinyl, a "broken record" repeats the same 2 second sound over & over) of cave diving deaths.
Rick

 

[wedivebc]

Problem is, you have to know enough to know you don't know what you're doing.
And that's why the old saw "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" rings true all too often; that's why the "he wasn't cave trained, but he was a diving instructor" is one of the broken records (for those who are post-vinyl, a "broken record" repeats the same 2 second sound over & over) of cave diving deaths.
Rick

Gee, one of them signs with a big grim reaper on it should keep them out eh?

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Gee, one of them signs with a big grim reaper on it should keep them out eh?

Maybe they should add THIS MEANS YOU to the sigh. I doubt it would work tho.

 

[Jax]

Pardon a side track question on handling situations like this --

Background - in Augusta, GA, I had a scuba friend that took Search & Rescue and became a 'volunteer Deputy' in the sheriff's dept. He could be called out to search for bodies or evidence in the river.

In a case like Eagle's Nest, do those of you that dive it 'frequently' (whatever that is!) also participate in such a thing? I cannot fathom any Law Enforcement having the expertise in something like this . . .

Also, the computer on a CCR -- does it log environmental data like my wrist computer? Or do you also use "tech" computers? Would / will it be useful in the investigation of what happened?

 

[DandyDon]

well, folks, in case you haven't heard, cave diving when you don't know what you're doing is not a good idea. now don't make me feel mad like this again, ok? ok.

OK, I have mostly just been following this thread as a silent reader as I am certainly not qualified to add anything. It's been interesting, even tho some of the discussions have used technical terms I don't understand - which may be the reason for my question...

Cave, even cavern, diving without proper instruction and training is reckless and dangerous and it's helpful to be reminded. In this case however, it seems it was not the cave that killed the diver but a gas mistake - is that right?

 

[Cave Diver]

In a case like Eagle's Nest, do those of you that dive it 'frequently' (whatever that is!) also participate in such a thing? I cannot fathom any Law Enforcement having the expertise in something like this . . .

Body recoveries in a cave, especially one like EN are usually done by experienced cave divers that have been "tapped" as a resource for law enforcement.

http://www.iucrr.org/p_whoweare.htm