Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[Winterpeg]

In my opinion the best help that I can give a new diver (or would be diver) is to assist them in making an informed choice. If that is "bashing," so be it. I don't think that it is. I see it, rather, as product differentiation.

"Product differentiation" doesn't help in an area where the only LDS's and instructors are PADI affiliated. With your considerable experience and expertise I think you could be more constructive and encouraging to beginners like myself, that's all.
BTW, I like your signature

 

[kathydee]

Only because you're stuck in the PADI box, and have no experience with anything else. As long as you make the assumption that all courses run through all agencies are in that same box ... you're right. But that assumption is very wrong. There's a whole big world out there outside of the PADI box that you are clearly not familiar with.

So, not to stir up more conflict, but strictly out of curiosity. What agency/(s) out side of the "PADI Box" would you recommend to new or experienced recreational divers?

 

[Thalassamania]

My first choice would be L.A. County, then neck and neck, with the Y a dash ahead, would be YMCA and NAUI. GUE is perhaps the most creditable recreational agency (I am not DIR), but they don't have an entry level program as yet. The best entry level diver training is available at universities and institutes that subscribe to the AAUS standards and offer a 100 hour "Scripps model course."

 

[kathydee]

L.A. County"

What does L.A. stand for? Los Angeles?

 

[Thalassamania]

Los Angles Underwater Instructors Association

 

[Thalassamania]

"Product differentiation" doesn't help in an area where the only LDS's and instructors are PADI affiliated.

Perhaps I could encourage you to move?

 

[Dive-aholic]

My first choice would be L.A. County, then neck and neck, with the Y a dash ahead, would be YMCA and NAUI. GUE is perhaps the most creditable recreational agency (I am not DIR), but they don't have an entry level program as yet. The best entry level diver training is available at universities and institutes that subscribe to the AAUS standards and offer a 100 hour "Scripps model course."

I'm not really sure why you state NAUI. Your experiences are obviously different than mine. While I will acknowledge that there are some great NAUI instructors out there, I've also encountered some not so impressive NAUI instructors and shops.

 

[Thalassamania]

Because LA County, NAUI and Y give instructors the freedom to be able to do great things, unfortunately without excellent Q/C it also gives them the freedom to do a lousy job. That's not been a problem with LA County, but I know has been, in rare cases, with NAUI (as it tried on several occasions to PADIfy itself) and to a lessor degree with Y.

 

[DaleC]

Forget the first ten dives, I just survived 23 pages of this darn post!

Come on, things change. At one time in order to skydive you had to take (at least) the full static line course. Now you can tandem jump in half an hour. Is it dumbed down? Is someone any less safe for having their experience that way? If they really enjoyed their tandem dives I'm sure they could go on to take the full static course (and then free fall) but do they need to do all that at first in order to have the experience? Thirty years ago yes, but not now. May be things are smartening up but that makes some people feel like they are dumbing down??? (you know who you are).

You can't have it both ways; poo pooing an organization for not training enough and then poo pooing them again for directing students to further training . It all just reminds me of folks that aren't DIR proponents slagging away in DIR threads and over zealous DIR proponents slagging away in non DIR threads.. or divers that complain about divers without enough experience then turn around and say they won't dive with divers who don't have experience. After participating in the "you'll die if you dive PADI" thread one can jump over to the "You'll die if you don't dive with a BP/W" thread or the "you'll die if you don't dive DIR" thread sheesh.

May be PADI has just figured out that there is more than one type of diver. Kind of sucks if you subscribe to the "every bodies gotta dive just like me" school (EGDJLM Int'l).

When I completed my OW, my instructor said "congratulations, this is not so much a certification to dive as it is a certification to learn". He confirmed then what I already knew, that diving was a lifelong process of learning. There was never the assumption that he had just churned out a "fully qualified diver". He directed me to get more dives in with other experienced divers and to continue my formal education...
What a jack__s!
Not only did he give me that kind of advice (fool) but he also keeps trying to STOP me from buying unnecessary gear.
Outrageous behavior for a PADI proponent indeed, according to some on the board. Doesn't he know that he should be screwing me out of every last dollar instead of being concerned for my well being? Obviously an anomaly.

OK I'm done venting now. I figure that I'm entitled to as I am actually PADI seduced and can't understand why people who want nothing to do with PADI spend so much time posting into a thread about it. Besides, I just got this b_tching PADI seals tattoo on my left butt cheek and it's either gripe or go solo snorkeling.

Now if you will excuse me, I have to go snorkelling... alone.

 

[Thalassamania]

Forget the first ten dives, I just survived 23 pages of this darn post!

Come on, things change. At one time in order to skydive you had to take (at least) the full static line course. Now you can tandem jump in half an hour. Is it dumbed down? Is someone any less safe for having their experience that way? If they really enjoyed their tandem dives I'm sure they could go on to take the full static course (and then free fall) but do they need to do all that at first in order to have the experience? Thirty years ago yes, but not now. May be things are smartening up but that makes some people feel like they are dumbing down??? (you know who you are).

You're missing the point. Tandem jumps are controlled by an expert, the student is just along for the ride. If the diving agencies did the same thing I'd have no problem or objection. My criticisims are that critical pieces have been eliminated from courses whilst the agencies pretent that students are, never-the-less, preparted to dive without leadership supervision, that students have "mastered" skills and that they are "safe."

You can't have it both ways; poo pooing an organization for not training enough and then poo pooing them again for directing students to further training . It all just reminds me of folks that aren't DIR proponents slagging away in DIR threads and over zealous DIR proponents slagging away in non DIR threads.. or divers that complain about divers without enough experience then turn around and say they won't dive with divers who don't have experience. After participating in the "you'll die if you dive PADI" thread one can jump over to the "You'll die if you don't dive with a BP/W" thread or the "you'll die if you don't dive DIR" thread sheesh.

I'm not DIR, I never have been DIR and I'm as critical of DIR (for its problems) as I am of PADI. So I really don't know what you're going on about.

May be PADI has just figured out that there is more than one type of diver. Kind of sucks if you subscribe to the "every bodies gotta dive just like me" school (EGDJLM Int'l).

Once again you're completely missing the point.