Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[RikRaeder]

I took a YMCA cert in 1986. Our instructor mentioned an organization called PADI which would become more mainstream in the future. We marvelled at his octopus regulator, and he predicted that all divers would be carrying them one day. We attended eight three hour sessions that included lecture and some pool time. The class was very thorough.
I took a two-day PADI cert in 2005. On 7am the first day I took the written test (having studied for it by myself previously). As far as I can remember, the information in the YMCA lectures and PADI book was the same (although a bit updated in the PADI book). The only difference I can recollect is that in '86 we had to memorize the US Navy dive tables.
From what I read around here, the big issue seems to be that there is not enough time spent on refining in-water technique. While the information students recieve is pretty much the same, it's alleged that many dive agencies scrimp on enforcing standards for it's retention. I've known people who got their ow cert after getting a 40% on the written test. Not cool in my opinion, but then again everyone in my class back in the day passed too. Who knows?

 

[kathydee]

DAN Divers Alert Network

I believe you have to be a member to access the report. I did a search and was prompted to log in before I got it. If you are not a member and don't wish to join, I can send it to you.

Thanks for the offer, but I don't want to bother you. Will keep myself busy with the accidents and near misses posted on SB.

I'd appreciate links if you know of other sites where I might find more educational accident accounts.

 

[D_B]

I don't want to be pushy but
... It might be worthwhile to join DAN if for no other reason than to support an organization that is dedicated to divers, diver safety, and dive research, not to mention access to the reports

 

[kathydee]

I don't want to be pushy but
... It might be worthwhile to join DAN if for no other reason than to support an organization that is dedicated to divers, diver safety, and dive research, not to mention access to the reports

Thanks for the un-pushy push .

Pardon the naiveté, but just learning about the US “SCUBA world” from SB (as all of my diving has been through remote shops in SE Asia where DAN was only briefly mentioned once for its insurance benefits).

My primary & travelers insurance both cover SCUBA, so did not see a reason to join DAN, but your (non-pushy post accompanied by an intimidating avatar) inspired more than a few minutes on the DAN site--definitely resulting in a membership donation from me! :angel2:

 

[D_B]

Yay :bounce3:



oops :blush:
.. pushy aren't I

 

[nereas]

I tend to disagree,ALL agencies set a minimum standard,we,(instructors) go by the minimum or not. IMO that is what PADI is doing,on the 1 to 5 scale,students need to meet atleast a 3,perform the skill with confidence. Yes as with any agency. (Instructors are allowed to do so by the agencies). No,instructors should do what's needed for there locality and then some. Yes I do blame them,I've seen students from several agencies,not able to do a simple mask clearing.And to add to that,most problems where NOT PADI students.(I'm not goining to bash an other agency)

Thanks,I'm just doing what's best for MY students.

300Bar, even with your devotion to students and small classes of 4 or less, in a world where PADI classes are more often 10 or 12, what makes you think 4 open water dives is enough to equip students with sufficient experience to dive on their own without a D/M or A/I with them?

This is an agency problem. And that is why you need to encourage all PADI students to take their AOW as quickly as possible, so that they do get sufficient dives under the supervision of an A/I or D/M.

And if you are not encouraging them to do so, then you are not "with" the PADI program. Because they really need to Put Another Dollar In.

 

[nereas]

Thanks for the un-pushy push .

Pardon the naiveté, but just learning about the US “SCUBA world” from SB (as all of my diving has been through remote shops in SE Asia where DAN was only briefly mentioned once for its insurance benefits).

My primary & travelers insurance both cover SCUBA, so did not see a reason to join DAN, but your (non-pushy post accompanied by an intimidating avatar) inspired more than a few minutes on the DAN site--definitely resulting in a membership donation from me! :angel2:

DAN is your best resource, in case you have a dive where you suspect DCS.

It can happen to anyone, eventually.

As a member of DAN, you can call them, and they will alert a hospital emergency room and direct you to it, and also a recompression chambre, if need be.

They also serve as a resourse to your own local hospital, in the case of suspected DCS. You would be surprised how little you local hospitals and physicans probably know about scuba injuries.

Membership services: 1-800-446-2671

 

[Walter]

DAN is your best resource, in case you have a dive where you suspect DCS.

It can happen to anyone, eventually.

As a member of DAN, you can call them, and they will alert a hospital emergency room and direct you to it, and also a recompression chambre, if need be.

They also serve as a resourse to your own local hospital, in the case of suspected DCS. You would be surprised how little you local hospitals and physicans probably know about scuba injuries.

That's all available to non-members as well.

 

[Winterpeg]

Let's try to answer this the way I see it.

On the PADI scale (1 to 5) 1 = student failed to perform the skill.5 = Student has a 100% mastery on this skill.
This is up to the instructor to judge,as would it be with all other agencies.
So if they can do it or come close to the way I do it they pass.If not they redo untill I'm sure the will perform in the openwater to meet a 4 or 5.

How much is up to the student,how many is up to me.
For pooltraining a max of 4 per instructor,less when students have problems.1:1 if need be.

For OW 2 per instructor max.DM in training allways added.
Cert.DM or AI when need be.

I know PADI standards give other max.numbers but they also state to adept to conditions.
When working in Curacao we did 4 students per instructor,again when needed more staff.

How much pooltime,again student depending min.6-7hours but when studends fail the initial time frame, they just go on untill they meet MY (4 or 5) standards.

I allways inform students that they MAY be able to do the OW in 7/8 weeks,but sometimes it takes as long as needbe.

IMO the whole problem with this discussion is the fact that some instructors accept the absolute minimum in standards.

This is not a PADI problem but a instructor problem.It will and does happen in any agency.Be it PADI,YMCA,CMAS or whatever.

I trained with a PADI dive shop and this pretty much describes how it was for me. So I have to agree, it's the instructors and LDS's that make the difference, not the agency.

 

[Thalassamania]

I trained with a PADI dive shop and this pretty much describes how it was for me. So I have to agree, it's the instructors and LDS's that make the difference, not the agency.

Only because you're stuck in the PADI box, and have no experience with anything else. As long as you make the assumption that all courses run through all agencies are in that same box ... you're right. But that assumption is very wrong. There's a whole big world out there outside of the PADI box that you are clearly not familiar with.