Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[obx_diver]

Interesting. So agencies have no responsibility for quality?

REGARDLESS of agency, if an instructor teaches to the minimum standards, they are not a professional, they are just punching a clock.

 

[obx_diver]

Divers can never be "safe." The best they can do is minimize risk ... very different things that require very different outlooks and approaches.

As long as some agencies and some instructors insist on lying to the diving public concerning the risks of diving in general and specifically the risks of diving upon "certification" without leadership personnel there is little or not hope.

Is it possible to minimize risk to the point of being safe? I agree with what you're saying, in principle. Terminology can be argued forever.

 

[Walter]

REGARDLESS of agency, if an instructor teaches to the minimum standards, they are not a professional, they are just punching a clock.

No arguments there, but way too many people are way too eager to absolve agencies of all responsibility. IMO, the agencies have a responsibility to provide high standards to act as a guide for instructors. It has been my experience that most instructors are just punching a clock, so the only quality in a course comes from the agency. All too often that quality is pretty poor. At least one agency encourages its instructors to teach in that manner. It's not one of the agencies with high standards.

 

[Thalassamania]

The list is long and has been covered in detail in many previous threads. Sufficient repetition of air sharing skills is one, buoyancy control is another, basic rescue (self and buddy) is another, etc., etc. etc.

 

[RikRaeder]

So then you're talking about actual in-water skills rather than theory?

 

[jbrians]

kathydeee

The dive training you speak of was before my days as a diver but I have been around some veterans and have quite a collection of vintage texts. Let it suffice to say that a few decades a go an OW certification consisted of what we consider to be OW, AOW, Rescue, including first aid and O2 if a chamber was available you may have taken a ride. The topcs we cosider AOW were not adventure dives but rather studied and executed as specialties. In the water exercises include harassment exercises where you would be sabotaged and need to recover, blindfolded frills, in the water gear recovery, extensive mask off and single mouthpiece buddy breathing and so forth. The academics included more math and understanding of the why, not just the how.

There are still some university semester programs that approach this. I'm sure there are some exceptional instructors that do today's modules in good depth and go beyond the letter of the standard. In today's instant gratification state of mind few individuals would sign up for a program like this. People want to make a minimal investment to make a warm water trip or try local diving. It's based on the learners permit mentality that gets you in the water but expects you to follow up with more classes, mentoring or self study.

The information is still there and you can be a capable a diver as you want to be but the entry hurdle has all but been removed.

Pete

I barely remember all that we had to do in '69 when I took my NAUI and ACUC certification course but it was a long course. Swimming underwater from one end of the pool to the other and donning all of our equipment on the bottom at the deep end. Blacked out mask and then doing the same thing, to train us for low vis condition emergencies. rescue traing involving towing a disabled diver for a couple of lenghts while sharing a double hose regular with them...

When we were finished, the SEALS had a choice of great students!

How much of that was necessary....maybe not a lot of it, but we didn't have the equipment that is available now so we had to rely much more on physical skills and training. Our course was 12 weeks long/4 hrs each session. We started by swimming laps. My open water dive was in Lake Simcoe in April and there was still ice. Maybe that's why there wasn't as many advanced courses back then? btw, my instructor was a licenced commercial diver.

Has it made me better? Nope. What it has done is made me more aware of how learning to use the new technology is as important as being able to survive if it all fails. After all, in the 60's we didn't have many backups with us.

 

[Thalassamania]

So then you're talking about actual in-water skills rather than theory?

No, I just provided a few clear examples which happen to be from the skills area, the same can be done for diving knowledge.

 

[Thalassamania]

kathydeee

The dive training you speak of was before my days as a diver but I have been around some veterans and have quite a collection of vintage texts. Let it suffice to say that a few decades a go an OW certification consisted of what we consider to be OW, AOW, Rescue, including first aid and O2 if a chamber was available you may have taken a ride. The topcs we cosider AOW were not adventure dives but rather studied and executed as specialties. In the water exercises include harassment exercises where you would be sabotaged and need to recover, blindfolded frills, in the water gear recovery, extensive mask off and single mouthpiece buddy breathing and so forth. The academics included more math and understanding of the why, not just the how.

That's fairly accurate, except for the harassment, which has never been part of any course I taught.

There are still some university semester programs that approach this.

Ours exceeded what you describe

I'm sure there are some exceptional instructors that do today's modules in good depth and go beyond the letter of the standard.

My current private instruction is exactly the same as my university class was, and I do not teach "modules."

In today's instant gratification state of mind few individuals would sign up for a program like this. People want to make a minimal investment to make a warm water trip or try local diving. It's based on the learners permit mentality that gets you in the water but expects you to follow up with more classes, mentoring or self study.

So we should blame the public for the agencies' lowering the entry barriers? It's not the agencies' fault, they couldn't help themselves, those people held a dollar to their head. No, really ... the agencies prostituted themselves giving little or no thought to the public's needs. I have no problem with the "new" format per se, my problem is that no agency will come out and tell the public that:

1. diving has real risks, it is not "safe".
2. to become a diver who is actually ready to dive independently they will need, at a minimum, to take A/O/W, buoyancy, O2, first aid, rescue, and a few specialties.
3. until they take those courses they really shold only dive with leadership personnel.[/quote]

The information is still there and you can be a capable a diver as you want to be but the entry hurdle has all but been removed.

The information has not been erased from the universe, but the number of people who have actually mastered all of it and organized it into a system that will help others do the same are few and far between, and are ridiculed by the agencies for running, "know-it-all" courses.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

Many pretty compelling arguments on both sides. Anecdotally, My wife and I just recently graduated from PADI OW/AOW and about the only real complaint I can come up with is that PADI should really put more emphasis on navigation. We just recently dove Catalina Island in CA and navigation in a strong current with a strong surge is essential to keep from having a long surface swim back to the boat, or worse, getting to star in your own version of Open Water when the current takes you out in the channel. Every other trick that place played to try and kill us our OW and AOW courses had pretty much prepared us for. The bone-chilling water, the near zero visibility, flooding mask, getting entangled in fishing line. . . All no problem. But trying to navigate in near zero-visibility water while being pitched and rolled?!?! That was a problem. I'm just saying that it's kind of important to be able to navigate and maybe the training agencies should stress it more. . .

 

[Thalassamania]

In order to teach navigation well you need an experienced instructor who can navigate, that is not likely to be found amongst many of the 100 dive wonders that are coming up today.