"Drifting Dan" Carlock wins $1.68 million after being left at sea

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I fault the dive operator for checking him off as being present TWICE.

I fault the diver for not having the smarts to stay with his dive buddy or by not having a dive-alert air horn. That sucker can be heard a mile away. I know it's saved my bacon before when I was first starting out and was drift diving....the current really sucked me and my buddy out.

At least he was smart enough not to panic and drown himself.
 
BTW- The reason Ken's opinion was not objected to was that the question was asked by Dan's attorney. I don't think you can object to a question you ask.

Not to mention that this happened while being deposed, not questioned on the witness stand.
 
As for the exchange above - I'm no lawyer, but I thought it wasn't allowed for people to testify about what's inside the head of other people.

First of all, as someone else pointed out, it was Carlock's own attorney who asked the question. (And remember my original disclaimer: I'm relating the gist of the questioning so the words may not be 100% accurate. But my "That went out the window" quote is accurate.) I have no idea why he asked it. At the time, i thought it was sort of a dumb question to ask because it certainly allowed me to cast Carlock in a negative light.

But also don't lose sight of what's going on in a deposition. (And Brcue, Chris, other attorneys, please weigh in on this.)

There's a lot of posturing going on, both by the attorney and by the person being deposed, which is me. Especially with someone who's acting as an expert witness who's either putting forth a point of view or at least trying only to give his opinions that reflect favorably on the client he's working for (different than just making stuff up to help your client - aka "pay for say"), there's a lot of leeway. Dan's attorney is feeling me out and vice versa.

During my first depo, he asked me about work history. I quickly mentioned doing radio, then TV, then moving out here. He had me go back to my radio career and asked me to detail it. I said, "You mean you want me to tell you about EVERY radio station where I worked and what I did?" He said, "Yes." So for 45 minutes I riffed on my radio career.

Now there's no way any of that is going to be used at trial. Maybe it gave the lawyer a better sense of who I was, maybe it didn't. But the point is that at the depo, you're throwing in everything including the kitchen sink, knowing full well you won't need it all at trial.

You can also probably hide your true intentions. Ask me 2 or 3 questions and I know where you're heading. Ask me 20 questions, only 2 or 3 of which you intend to really use and it may be harder to discern your strategy.

I was deposed for three full days. Subtracting breaks, it's about 21 hours of tesitmony. (And they cancelled the other two days I was to be deposed on a procedural ground.) I was on the stand at trial for about 3 hours.

How can you know what was in his head - what his motivation was?

I have no ideas what was in Dan's head (that staement works on a number of levels) but merely was commenting that at first he had said publicly that he wasn't going to sue anybody and that he just wanted to make the industry better. But as soon as he sued somebody and asked for money, the altruistic approach no longer existed. Simple statement of fact.

- Ken
 
Ken, I could not have said that better.

A couple of comments:

1. The attorney asked Ken the particular question during a deposition. That way he would know what Ken would say and could decide whether to ask it at trial. I’m guessing he didn’t ask it at trial.

2. I’m always a skeptic. However, I don’t have any problem with Dan suing or seeking a lot of money. I don’t have a problem with him drifting along and saying to himself: “If I get out of this, I’m going to sue them for everything they are worth.” And, doing so is not, IMHO inconsistent with him changing the industry.

3. I would love to know Dan’s position here and now. But, realistically, its none of my business. Nor is it anyone else’s business. Much though I’d like to know his take, I respect his right to keep quiet. And, if he asked my opinion, I’d tell him to keep his mouth shut… especially until all appeals are over.
 
Very interesting thread. I am finding the discussion between the lawyers of particular interest. Thanks for some very insightful posts!

I think I have made my position clear and see no reason to repeat myself. IMHO nothing I have read so far changes that position. Thank goodness we have lawyers to help people in their efforts to find whatever justice they can in whatever form they can. Yep there are some unscrupulous lawyers who may push too far in some cases but that is no different than any other profession.

It seems to me that if ItsBruce, Ken, Rhone and our other learned members feel there is a good chance the appeal may reduce the $ amount it supports the position that the amount was likely on the high side.
 
Ken, thanks as always for giving us such detailed information and insight. You have shed much light on this case -- light that we couldn't have gotten anywhere else. As we all know, while there are copious amounts of information out there, much of it is of questionable veracity. So your input has been very educational and enlightening.

IMHO nothing I have read so far changes that position.

I actually HAVE swayed at least some of my opinions on this case, based on new information that I learned from this thread. I'd believed certain things due to the information I had available to me at the time. Once I learned that certain facts were actually different from what I'd originally read, my opinion changed.

Strangely, I've recently been criticized for that, which I find baffling. I personally think people SHOULD be willing to change their minds based on new information! How many of us have encountered someone who states an opinion based on faulty information, yet when presented with the actual facts, they cling to their flawed opinion like a junkyard dog clamped on to a pantleg? That, to me, is just being foolishly stubborn. What point is there to even engage in a discussion about something if we're all going to choose a position, then stick to it in spite of anything new that we learn?

But, like you, I can say that my overall perspective hasn't changed. I still largely agree with the jury's decision. I still feel that Dan should have won this case. The award amount - I don't know if it's too high. I'd definitely love to hear the jury's reasoning behind it! And I, like so many of us, will be eager to see if this is appealed, and what happens if it is.

Ken, I could not have said that better.

A couple of comments:

1. The attorney asked Ken the particular question during a deposition. That way he would know what Ken would say and could decide whether to ask it at trial. I’m guessing he didn’t ask it at trial.

I didn't catch in reading Ken's post that this was in a deposition. But even if I had, not being a lawyer, I'm not really clear on where a deposition fits into the whole trial process. Can anything said in a deposition be used later at trial?

2. I’m always a skeptic. However, I don’t have any problem with Dan suing or seeking a lot of money. I don’t have a problem with him drifting along and saying to himself: “If I get out of this, I’m going to sue them for everything they are worth.” And, doing so is not, IMHO inconsistent with him changing the industry.

I could not agree with you more on this - every word. And I can't help but think that MOST of us would think that, if we were in his fins...Monday-morning quarterbacking notwithstanding.
3. I would love to know Dan’s position here and now. But, realistically, its none of my business. Nor is it anyone else’s business. Much though I’d like to know his take, I respect his right to keep quiet. And, if he asked my opinion, I’d tell him to keep his mouth shut… especially until all appeals are over.

That's the point I've been trying to make. As much as we'd all love to hear what he has to say, I expect that his attorney would advise him to keep his mouth clamped shut. We can theorize all we want that there are things he could say that wouldn't *hurt* his case, but really, who knows what might be twisted around and used against him in an appeal? Surely the smartest course of action for him would be to remain silent. And he shouldn't be castigated for that.

I also feel that what he does with the money, should he ever actually end up with any, is none of our business.
 
There is a big difference between being awarded money and collecting it. Stay tuned.
 
I actually HAVE swayed at least some of my opinions on this case, based on new information that I learned from this thread. I'd believed certain things due to the information I had available to me at the time. Once I learned that certain facts were actually different from what I'd originally read, my opinion changed.

Strangely, I've recently been criticized for that, which I find baffling. I personally think people SHOULD be willing to change their minds based on new information! How many of us have encountered someone who states an opinion based on faulty information, yet when presented with the actual facts, they cling to their flawed opinion like a junkyard dog clamped on to a pantleg? That, to me, is just being foolishly stubborn. What point is there to even engage in a discussion about something if we're all going to choose a position, then stick to it in spite of anything new that we learn?

But, like you, I can say that my overall perspective hasn't changed. I still largely agree with the jury's decision. I still feel that Dan should have won this case. The award amount - I don't know if it's too high. I'd definitely love to hear the jury's reasoning behind it! And I, like so many of us, will be eager to see if this is appealed, and what happens if it is.

I must say I certainly respect you for being open minded about the information presented.

I also hope you are not referring to me in the part I have bolded above. I have said from the beginning I felt a number of people contributed to the chain of events that resulted in this disaster including Dan, the DM, the person who answered for Dan, and the captain.

The information that Ken provided confirmed information I was given before this thread sprang to life. The information Bruce and the other legal minds have given seems to me to support my feeling that the amount was too high.

Dan's motives really are of no concern to me, he has a right to lodge the suit as he did but I can not assign altruistic motives to someone who sues for 4mil. What he chooses to do with the money if he gets it
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not of interest to me either really.

I think and I have stated previously that people including Dan should be able to put this behind them and move on. I sympathize with all involved and their families who are also impacted by this long stressful case. The wheels of justice turn slowly and I can tell you that for me the stress of this long drawn out process would be as bad as a few hours floating in the ocean wondering if I was about to have a shark do a taste test!

I don't think there is any point in DAN posting here or trying to explain himself. People will come to their conclusions no matter what he says IMHO he can not win the public opinion poll any more than the other individuals involved.
 
Mr. Carlock's adventures did have an impact on many divers and Captain's alike.
Will it last? Maybe. Although, I'm pretty sure that it will be the dive boat industry's insurance underwriters that will insure that only a member of the crew will do diver roll calls.

Will it happen again? Yep.

I'm not sure who, if anyone, sets the procedures for dive boats to follow. As to the companies that sell liability insurance, my own (limited) experience is that they don't make an effort to influence business practices much at all. They simply pay the claims and raise their rates accordingly.

Will it happen again? Undoubtedly, but sadly, it's so avoidable. Accounting for the presence of a couple dozen individuals isn't difficult or costly, and it is already being done very effectively in many parts of the world.

That said, if floating in the ocean for a few hours is worth half a million dollars an hour, I think you would get more than a few volunteers.
 
There is no system that is foolproof. The fools are simply too inventive. Using two or three redundant, but different systems will reduce the risk of leaving someone behind, but it will not eliminate the risk entirely.
 

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