Does anyone dive with tables anymore?

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I appreciate your style of diving, but it is in no way an argument against the devices some of the rest of us choose to utilize. My computer dies, I just replace it with the backup puck I've been carrying in my pocket, and pick right back up with the next dive because my backup has been maintaining the exact same profile as my primary.

All the contingencies you listed hold true with how I dive. Like I said...it's just different equipment...not necessarily better or worse. If you're referring to those divers that just wait on their computers to beep at them, then I would agree with your perspective, but your implication that just because someone uses a computer they must not be thinking for themselves, is just plain wrong. Like I said, I don't take issue with your preferences...just your implications.

BTW, I've never had a computer fail me either. :wink:

My statement about thinking for one's self is based on a very common comment I've read here where diver's claim they use a computer because they can get more bottom time because the computer keeps track of their dives for them and, therefore, all they have to do is follow what their computer tells them. I have read many posts here where computer users come right out and say they like using a computer because they don't have to plan a dive, that all they have to do is turn it on and do what it says. That's fine for them, if that's what they want to do. Human nature is like water, it tends to follow the path of least resistance. Why buy a map or even learn how to read one if a GPS unit will tell you where to go? All you have to do is follow its directions. Oops, there is now a lake where the GPS thinks there is still a rural road. Oh, well, the car needed to be washed, anyway.:D

If the comments made in many of the posts on this board are any indication, the reason most computer divers use computers is that they don't want to have to think about NDLs and bottom time limits. They just want to have fun and a computer makes that easier for them. The computer tells them everything they want to know. That is, if it's working correctly. Again, that's fine for them, if that's what they want to do.

My issue is not with those who decide that using a computer is right for them. It is with those who claim that a computer is indispensable, that everyone is using them and, therefore, all divers must have one in order to dive.

From your comments, I gather that you are more like me, though, in a way. You like the convenience of a computer but the fact that you carry a spare tells me you don't put absolute faith in them. But, from what I've read, most do not carry an extra computer, so a failure puts a halt to their diving for the day. For me, since I don't feel comfortable following a computer over the tables, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to carry one except, perhaps, as a backup timer/depth gauge.

My preferred style of diving most certainly is a valid argument against using a computer. For me and others like me.
 
Seems like a pretty foolish idea to me.

As a dive guide, I use two dive computers, one on air and one on nitrox. Most customers reply on me to monitor their NDL. Most dive computers have several functions such as dual gas,spg,water temp,acsend limits,ni loads,personal dive comfort,all sorts of visible/audible warnigs along with dive plan,history,& memory. Goodness! IMPO I believe it makes me a safer/better dive guide. Leaving me with more attention time to the divers plus I can alter the dive plan/profile with the ever changing weather,viz, currents or that wonderful giant creature surprise that is never structured in a dive adventure.
To me now days a dive table is where I sign log books & get that free barleypop.

"living life without a hard bottom"
KT
 
I am not sure of how putting your trust in dive tables is vastly different from putting your trust in dive computers.

They both do the same thing so it depends on how you put your trust because tables and computers act differently.

Let's say I'm diving deep and at recreational depths with my 200cuft gas load and my sole computer dies. I now only know how much gas I have and how deep I am. No longer know how long I've been down. This would be a problem.

I love the convenience of computers for the type of diving that I do. However, I also distrust them as they can just quit on you or you can splash with some stupid nitrox setting that makes them useless for the dive. If it can happen, sooner or later it will.

So my left arm carries dive plans cut to suit the tanks I splashed with and a dive timer. I don't even trust that I will always have the tables and dive timer so I've memorized the 10min missed stop procedure using my SAC rate recalculated for psi's consumed at the four depth stops. Takes just about exactly 500psi and no timing device required.

I always plan (and dive) to be back with 1000psi. 500 for the safety margin and 500 for the 10min missed stop. And by the way, this is also diving "thirds".
 
My statement about thinking for one's self is based on a very common comment I've read here where diver's claim they use a computer because they can get more bottom time because the computer keeps track of their dives for them and, therefore, all they have to do is follow what their computer tells them. I have read many posts here where computer users come right out and say they like using a computer because they don't have to plan a dive, that all they have to do is turn it on and do what it says. That's fine for them, if that's what they want to do. Human nature is like water, it tends to follow the path of least resistance. Why buy a map or even learn how to read one if a GPS unit will tell you where to go? All you have to do is follow its directions. Oops, there is now a lake where the GPS thinks there is still a rural road. Oh, well, the car needed to be washed, anyway.:D

If the comments made in many of the posts on this board are any indication, the reason most computer divers use computers is that they don't want to have to think about NDLs and bottom time limits. They just want to have fun and a computer makes that easier for them. The computer tells them everything they want to know. That is, if it's working correctly. Again, that's fine for them, if that's what they want to do.

My issue is not with those who decide that using a computer is right for them. It is with those who claim that a computer is indispensable, that everyone is using them and, therefore, all divers must have one in order to dive.

From your comments, I gather that you are more like me, though, in a way. You like the convenience of a computer but the fact that you carry a spare tells me you don't put absolute faith in them. But, from what I've read, most do not carry an extra computer, so a failure puts a halt to their diving for the day. For me, since I don't feel comfortable following a computer over the tables, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to carry one except, perhaps, as a backup timer/depth gauge.

My preferred style of diving most certainly is a valid argument against using a computer. For me and others like me.

Well, why didn't ya just say so in the first place. I've seen those that would probably drown if their computer didn't beep at them to surface...so, we agree those types are out there...but, I disagree that it's necessarily the majority just because of some comments I've read on an internet forum. One thing I will correct for you tho, is that some of us that comment on extending bottom time with a computer do not make that statement because we do not want to have to "think about" anything...it's that computers can calculate multi-level profiles and give credit for shallower depths. You may accomplish that to some degree manually, but not to the degree of granularity and accuracy a computer provides. I do have enough experience with tables (dove them for many years before going to a computer) to know if my computer is leading me astray. However, that has never happened for me. As for my backup being proof that I don't fully trust my computer, that's more to do with my paranoia and intimate knowledge of Mr. Murphy and his laws, than it does with actually distrusting my computer. I've had an analog SPG fail before, and I figure if that can happen, anything else can fail. Also, my son and I have disabled all alarms on our computers, and use them for information for managing our dives...not as babysitters.

BTW, I absolutley hate GPS gadgets. When I head out cross country on my Harley, you'll see me consulting a good old fashioned map on the side of the road...not because I don't trust GPS...just prefer maps...my wife says it's my fetish. :D
 
They both do the same thing so it depends on how you put your trust because tables and computers act differently.

Let's say I'm diving deep and at recreational depths with my 200cuft gas load and my sole computer dies. I now only know how much gas I have and how deep I am. No longer know how long I've been down. This would be a problem.

I love the convenience of computers for the type of diving that I do. However, I also distrust them as they can just quit on you or you can splash with some stupid nitrox setting that makes them useless for the dive. If it can happen, sooner or later it will.

So my left arm carries dive plans cut to suit the tanks I splashed with and a dive timer. I don't even trust that I will always have the tables and dive timer so I've memorized the 10min missed stop procedure using my SAC rate recalculated for psi's consumed at the four depth stops. Takes just about exactly 500psi and no timing device required.

I always plan (and dive) to be back with 1000psi. 500 for the safety margin and 500 for the 10min missed stop. And by the way, this is also diving "thirds".


You don't get my point, the tables are based on algorithms and mathematical approximations that mortals came up with on the assumption that they approximate what human physiology is doing U/W and above Water. None of us were born with the magical tables tattooed to our butts from God. Tables are just as fallible in their limits and mathematical models.

The question of the reliability of dive computers U/W (not the reliability of their Deco. Algorithm or the correctness of their mathematical model), is easily addressed by using a backup dive computer.

Someone argued several posts above against the reliability of a dive computer and used his own personal computer that is loaded with several operating systems as an example, this is the most ludicrous analogy or supposed "proof" of dive computer potential susceptibility to failure I have seen in this thread. To compare these totally different types of computers is either intentionally trying to confuse the issues or is a sign of gross misunderstanding of different types of computers. Let's not forget that the dive computer is a dedicated single purpose computer with no provisions for the user to reprogram it to change its functions or alter its programming in anyway other than changing some predefined parameters to fit the circumstances of the user. The operating systems is VASTLY different and no comparisons or conclusions can be reached on one based on the performance of the other.

The advantages of computers for the diver has been vastly explains by EastTNDiver in his previous posts.
 
......//.....The question of the reliability of dive computers U/W (not the reliability of their Deco. Algorithm or the correctness of their mathematical model), is easily addressed by using a backup dive computer.
.............//.............The advantages of computers for the diver has been vastly explains by EastTNDiver in his previous posts.

Absolutely no problem with either position.

But going back to the OP's question, giving him two computers does not remove the ability for him to dive two computers incorrectly. Is this a bad thing? Again, I don't know.

I do know that anyone I've met that dives tables will be able to offer bailout plans that are much more thought out than the average computer-only divers that I know.
 
There are at least 6 threads of this subject on Scubaboard.

Nothing new is presented here!
 
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