Does anyone dive with tables anymore?

[BoltSnap]

Absolutely no problem with either position.

But going back to the OP's question, giving him two computers does not remove the ability for him to dive two computers incorrectly.

I am not sure that I understand you correctly but it seems that you talking about "user error." If so, if the person can't be trusted with knowing how to use a dive computer, he probably can't do any better with a dive table.

I do know that anyone I've met that dives tables will be able to offer bailout plans that are much more thought out than the average computer-only divers that I know.

Perhaps dive tables require more elaborate contingency plans than dive computers something that I'd consider an advantage for dive computers.


Some folks here say that using dive computers is a way for certification agencies or dive instructors to teach to lower standards or a way to turn out divers faster than teaching tables. In my experience, teaching tables takes less time than teaching dive computers. Although I am an advocate of using dive computers, I do teach dive tables extensively in my courses. I added about 15 questions on table use and DCS to the SD course final exam beyond what NAUI requires and I require that my students score 100% on sections related to DCS and tables in addition to Barotrauma injuries.

 

[EastTNDiver]

Absolutely no problem with either position.

But going back to the OP's question, giving him two computers does not remove the ability for him to dive two computers incorrectly. Is this a bad thing? Again, I don't know.

I do know that anyone I've met that dives tables will be able to offer bailout plans that are much more thought out than the average computer-only divers that I know.

Because of the section of the forum we're in, my entire conversation on this subject has been relative to recreational diving only. Keeping that in mind, I'm curious to hear what kind of superior "bailout plans" your table divers have come up with. Computer dies...depth guage dies...watch dies...spg dies...blah blah blah...you end the dive and follow a normal ascent protocol. All divers, regardless of computer or not, should be aware of their situation...PSI, depth, bottom time, etc...and, be able to perform an ascent without the assistance of any devices were any of the above listed information to become no longer available, or believed to be inaccurate. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by diving a computer incorrectly, but I've seen divers dive incorrectly...with computers and without.

I think the problem I see in this thread with some folks, is the tendency to confuse bad divers with the equipment their diving. If I were to base my opinions on that, then I'd never dive anything analog again, as I have seen some real trainwrecks long before computers entered mainstream.

 

[Randy43068]

Most divers aren't up against the NDLs, they're limiting factor is air.

The only thing I find absolutely insane is people spending big bucks on a dive computer. Big bucks = anything over 300.
Heck, I can get a whole dive trip for what some people pay for a dive computer and that's just insane.

I don't dive cattle boats nor do I dive with operators who feel the need to babysit me. If a boat operator is so unsophisticated that he can't recognize that one does NOT NEED a computer to be a competent diver, then they are too much out of the loop for me to dive with.

Diving tables, or a computer isn't right or wrong, it's a matter of diving preference or diving style. There are good reasons for using either.

Because of the section of the forum we're in, my entire conversation on this subject has been relative to recreational diving only. Keeping that in mind, I'm curious to hear what kind of superior "bailout plans" your table divers have come up with. Computer dies...depth guage dies...watch dies...spg dies...blah blah blah...you end the dive and follow a normal ascent protocol. All divers, regardless of computer or not, should be aware of their situation...PSI, depth, bottom time, etc...and, be able to perform an ascent without the assistance of any devices were any of the above listed information to become no longer available, or believed to be inaccurate. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by diving a computer incorrectly, but I've seen divers dive incorrectly...with computers and without.

I think the problem I see in this thread with some folks, is the tendency to confuse bad divers with the equipment their diving. If I were to base my opinions on that, then I'd never dive anything analog again, as I have seen some real trainwrecks long before computers entered mainstream.

 

[dmoore19]

There are arguments against computers for Tech diving, though not a Tech Diver I can understand the need for bailout plans and variations of the plan, this I understand. For the recreational diver there is a need to plan a dive, I understand that, you can use the computer or tables to give you an idea of your NDL.

 

[EastTNDiver]

Most divers aren't up against the NDLs, they're limiting factor is air.

The only thing I find absolutely insane is people spending big bucks on a dive computer. Big bucks = anything over 300.
Heck, I can get a whole dive trip for what some people pay for a dive computer and that's just insane.

I don't dive cattle boats nor do I dive with operators who feel the need to babysit me. If a boat operator is so unsophisticated that he can't recognize that one does NOT NEED a computer to be a competent diver, then they are too much out of the loop for me to dive with.

Diving tables, or a computer isn't right or wrong, it's a matter of diving preference or diving style. There are good reasons for using either.

I absolutely hate cattle boats, and ops that butt into my dive planning beyond briefings and keeping me apprised of the boat schedule.

As for computer cost, you'd love my wide screen computer...SP Galileo Sol...1500 smackeroonies...times two, as my son dives one too. Just call me insane...but hey, it's got a really kewl compass!

 

[lowviz]

I am not sure that I understand you correctly but it seems that you talking about "user error." If so, if the person can't be trusted with knowing how to use a dive computer, he probably can't do any better with a dive table...........................

Again, we agree. We are discussing new OW divers.

But giving a new diver a dive table would convince him that he can't be trusted with it until he learns something.

........Perhaps dive tables require more elaborate contingency plans than dive computers something that I'd consider an advantage for dive computers..................

Not exactly. Remove both the tables and computer, given just a depth gauge, which group is more likely to ascend properly if one suspects they have strayed out of NDL? There is no longer a beeping computer to guide the new OW student.

............//......... Although I am an advocate of using dive computers, I do teach dive tables extensively in my courses. I added about 15 questions on table use and DCS to the SD course final exam beyond what NAUI requires and I require that my students score 100% on sections related to DCS and tables in addition to Barotrauma injuries.

Excellent! Why do you do that?

Because of the section of the forum we're in, my entire conversation on this subject has been relative to recreational diving only............

Me too. And if it were impossible for a recreational diver to accidently encounter a deco obligation, I would be 100% with you.

If I find myself underwater and the least bit unsure of the safety of a direct ascent, I will take simple actions to alleviate my concern.

 

[Randy43068]

Agreed, but this isn't a tech forum. Your discussion doesn't fit here. However, I don't disagree with you.

There are arguments against computers for Tech diving, though not a Tech Diver I can understand the need for bailout plans and variations of the plan, this I understand. For the recreational diver there is a need to plan a dive, I understand that, you can use the computer or tables to give you an idea of your NDL.

 

[Randy43068]

Yeah well, for me that's not a smart way to spend money. You really gained no margin of safety by spending $1500 on a dive computer.

I absolutely hate cattle boats, and ops that butt into my dive planning beyond briefings and keeping me apprised of the boat schedule.

As for computer cost, you'd love my wide screen computer...SP Galileo Sol...1500 smackeroonies...times two, as my son dives one too. Just call me insane...but hey, it's got a really kewl compass!

 

[EastTNDiver]

Yeah well, for me that's not a smart way to spend money. You really gained no margin of safety by spending $1500 on a dive computer.

None of this is a "smart" way to spend money...but, it IS fun. We all derive "fun" in different ways. I'm sure I'd disagree with some of your purchases, but then you didn't purchase them for me did ya.

 

[dmoore19]

Most divers aren't up against the NDLs, they're limiting factor is air.

The only thing I find absolutely insane is people spending big bucks on a dive computer. Big bucks = anything over 300.
Heck, I can get a whole dive trip for what some people pay for a dive computer and that's just insane.

I don't dive cattle boats nor do I dive with operators who feel the need to babysit me. If a boat operator is so unsophisticated that he can't recognize that one does NOT NEED a computer to be a competent diver, then they are too much out of the loop for me to dive with.

Diving tables, or a computer isn't right or wrong, it's a matter of diving preference or diving style. There are good reasons for using either.

I don't find spending more than $300 for a computer insane. Use your tables or any computer you wish or don't wish to use. You spend your money your way, I will spend my money the way I want.