Does anyone dive with tables anymore?

[SlicerDicer]

Computers, of any type, only help us process information and present them to us in a more convenient way for us to use our heads and make the required decisions. I think that it is way too late to say computers don't have their place in our lives including diving.

I understand that it might be a "macho" thing to dive vintage equipment and fight using computers, etc. but this is getting really old.

Are you serious? Macho? I run my own computer rack that has FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Linux (various distros) I am not about to trust a computer being infallible. I mean for instance did you know that really the only self healing file system that has error correction built in copy on write is ZFS? Good luck doing that on a dive computer.

I trust them as a general device but I would never trust my life with them. To do so would be insanity sure they are logical devices that are in theory far better than most humans. However when they go wrong they really go wrong.

Having said all this notice I have a Suunto Dual analog gauge, Atomic Cobalt and then my watch under my wetsuit. I also write my dive generally on the back of my slate with the pencil.

If thats macho then I guess I am.. I consider it safety above all.

http://i.imgur.com/37EZT.jpg

Dive computers have place as a companion, I use it to estimate my air time, record my dives, dive time (at glance), temps, Compass. I constantly check my analog gauges against my digital.

 

[EastTNDiver]

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I prefer to do my own thinking rather than letting a machine do it for me. Just because a computer displays data on a screen does not necessarily mean that data is accurate. Computers perform millions of computations per second and all it takes is a single, fleeting glitch or a bad logic gate to give erroneous data. I simply do not trust them, so why use them? Of course, this is a personal choice and I do not pretend to make that choice for other divers. I do not look down my nose at users of dive computers and expect that same courtesy in return.
...

Do you honestly think that everyone using a computer is not thinking for themselves? I too prefer to do my own thinking, and use the computer for information. Just because an SPG's needle is pointing to a given number doesn't mean that pressure reading is right either. We all trust various devices in our lives...everyday. Do you drive a modern car? If so, then you must trust computers to some degree. BTW, the first statement in your quote above is doing exactly what you claim not to do...looking down your nose at those using computers...i.e. "rather than letting a machine do it for me". Mirror mirror on the wall...

 

[Paladin]

Do you honestly think that everyone using a computer is not thinking for themselves? I too prefer to do my own thinking, and use the computer for information. Just because an SPG's needle is pointing to a given number doesn't mean that pressure reading is right either. We all trust various devices in our lives...everyday. Do you drive a modern car? If so, then you must trust computers to some degree. BTW, the first statement in your quote above is doing exactly what you claim not to do...looking down your nose at those using computers...i.e. "rather than letting a machine do it for me". Mirror mirror on the wall...

Actually, I drive a 1986 Chevrolet Suburban for exactly the reason you stated. It does not have a computer controlled system. I've had a couple cars a few years ago with computer systems and had too much trouble with them. Do I completely trust an SPG? No, I do not. None of them are truly accurate. Put six SPGs on a tank and you will get six different answers that are in the ballpark of the actual tank pressure. I know my SAC rate and back up the SPG with my watch. If my watch dies, the dive is over. However, unlike when a computer dies, I can continue to dive for the rest of the day with another watch.

For me, relying on a computer for information is letting the computer do the thinking for me simply because I would be relying on the computer for critical information and trusting that said information is accurate and letting it influence my decisions. You may see it another way.

I do not see how my preference is "looking down my nose" at anyone. Not once have I said that anyone who relies on a computer is in anyway inferior. It is their choice as to how they receive and use data. I personally do not completely trust computers. They are convenient devices but I believe that one must be ready and able to switch on the fly to more "primitive" processes when the computer fails. And it will fail at some point. It's only a matter of time.

I will readily admit that I am a member of a vanishing breed. My first kit consisted of a US Divers steel 72 (with J-valve) mounted on a harness, an Aqua-Lung DA Aqua-Master double hose regulator, a second hand dive watch, capillary depth gauge, fins, mask and snorkel. I had no SPG, no BC and definitely no computer other than what I was born with. The skill set that I had to learn back then became second nature and remains ingrained in my diving habits to this day. I use tables to plan every dive before I get in the water and then stick to the plan. To jump in the water, then follow the data on a computer screen just is not my way. Last year, when I was using my computer, I still followed the dive plans I worked up using the tables and ignored the computer when it tried to entice me into staying down longer than I felt was prudent. It was kind of like the ancient Sirens calling sailors toward the rocks.

I fully realize that computers, BCs and all the rest of the modern dive systems have been developed to make diving easier and training programs shorter in order to attract more divers. I have even begun to use some of the new stuff myself, although I can just as easily do without most of it if I should need (or want) to.

The point I have been trying to make here is simply that a computer is not indispensable, as someone on this thread stated. It is a convenience only and should be used as such. If you trust a machine to never fail you or give you inaccurate data then, by all means, go for it. That way just isn't for me.

 

[Akimbo]

Society is enduring transition fueled by enticing features countered by really poor reliability… cell phones being the perfect example. Hundreds of millions of people accept expensive service, the acoustic quality of a toilet bowl, and frequent dropped calls in exchange for mobility and dozens of features unrelated to telephony.

Dive computers share in this evolution. I think most of us agree that when dive computers become competitive in cost and reliability with the analog instruments they replace that the added features are very desirable. Features are likely to expand beyond decompression to include cell phone-like cameras, surface receiving GPS and signaling for lost-at-sea emergencies, homing for boat location, dramatically improved usability, and full interoperability with desktop dive planning programs… along with tons of “apps” nobody has considered yet.

Transition periods are always painful and full of debate, but that ultimately fuels the improvements. In a case like dive computers where many perceive that basic skills are being abdicated to a device that has demonstrated marginal reliability, we should expect passionate discussion.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Sure, I dive with tables. Hell, there's one built right into the bezel of my dive watch. If I were to do ONE dive, there's no need to have a dive computer.

Which dive watch has the tables built into the bezel, I'd love to have one. All that I can find has the rotating bezel with time marking.

 

[SlicerDicer]

Society is enduring transition fueled by enticing features countered by really poor reliability… cell phones being the perfect example. Hundreds of millions of people accept expensive service, the acoustic quality of a toilet bowl, and frequent dropped calls in exchange for mobility and dozens of features unrelated to telephony.

Welcome to the instant gratification society we have now become. I want it now I want it when I want it how I want it and if you do not I am going to have a fit!!! I see people make excuses for their phones or their computers. I see people make excuses even fore solid state devices... WAT?!!?

 

[windapp]

For those of you who say that a computer is doing the thinking for you, please post the M values and tissue compartment nitrogen levels for your last dive. Don't know them? When you use a table, you are relying on the person who created the table to do the calculations and most of the thinking for you. Just my 2 bar worth.

 

[EastTNDiver]

...I do not see how my preference is "looking down my nose" at anyone. Not once have I said that anyone who relies on a computer is in anyway inferior. It is their choice as to how they receive and use data. I personally do not completely trust computers. They are convenient devices but I believe that one must be ready and able to switch on the fly to more "primitive" processes when the computer fails. And it will fail at some point. It's only a matter of time.
...

It wasn't your preference, it was your statement..."I prefer to do my own thinking rather than letting a machine do it for me." That implied to me that your perspective is anyone using a computer is not doing their own thinking. You may not think you're relying on machines, but your are. Your watch is a machine...your SPG is a machine...your depth guage is a machine...all of which can also fail completely, or partially, giving inaccurate info. I just use a different type of machine for the same kind of info...computer gives me my time...just like your watch...computer gives me my depth...just like your depth guage...computer gives me my PSI...just like your spg...I use all that same information to manage my dives...how does this imply I'm not doing my own thinking?

 

[lowviz]

......//.....many perceive that basic skills are being abdicated to a device ...........//........

I am one of those that believe this to be true. However, it takes a bit to explain exactly what is being abdicated that I find distressing.

There is a sign at the entrance to the Devil's Eye and Devil's Ear cave system. It reads: "No Lights." This means swimmers, freedivers, and openwater divers are all welcome, but not permitted to carry any lights while in this area. They all know how to use a light correctly, but this dive function is denied to them when they dive there. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out why.

So we give a dive computer to a freshly-minted OW diver. The DC will beep if you go too deep, stay too long, or ascend too fast. All are valuable alerts. Some of these divers will want to plan their dives and learn the basic rules behind how the thing operates. I have no problem with DC's in the hands of these divers.

It is the remaining part of the new OW population that concerns me. Since you can just jump into the water with a DC and alter what you are doing to minimize the beeping, some will dive it that way and never change. The question that I struggle with is: "Is this progress and we all need to get used to such behavior or are we remiss by giving them the ability to abdicate too much of what needs to be basic skills?"

I don't have the answer.

 

[rhwestfall]

I don't have the answer.

It can be found in the Cliff Notes....