Do you use reg. necklace for your primary?

[spectrum]

I have noticed more divers are borrowing another safety tip from tech divers and using necklaces to keep the alternate reg. close by. Does anyone use the necklaces just for their primary? So if they are on the surface and want to let the primary out of their mouth to talk or something else the primary is right there at their mouth to be quickly and easily put back in.

Just wanted to see what others may think or be doing.

Thanks.

Well by now you know that it's not a common practice!

You cite the advantage of it keeping your primary second stage close to your mouth for quick and easy retrieval. That sounds like a good deal.

What are the risks? The only real one I see is if an OOA diver comes at you in a panic and goes for your primary second (in your mouth and bungied to your neck) they will not have an easy time of it. So let's pick this apart a little more.....

Scenario 1 you are diving with a buddy or as a team at a site where encountering other divers underwater is unlikely. The pre-dive air share discussion should set the expectation that a buddy go for your alternate, the location of which you point out.

How often do you have an OOA diver come to you in distress? The nearly universal failure mode of regulators is to over deliver air. If the diver is in any sort of buddy formation there is ample time to get to your alternate. If he or she has emptied their cylinder by breathing it down to nothing then that's inexcusable to begin with. Tank valve partially open, I'll admit in a moment of distraction it can happen.

So there are remote possibilities and these are what you need to deal with. So they are in a panic and snatch your primary. Your goal was to have it hang below your chin for easy retrieval and necklaces do stretch. They may stuff it their mouth upside down and it may breathe a little wet but they will still get air to ease the crisis. Meanwhile you can retrieve your alternate for immediate use and when appropriate get them on the alternate to ascend. I will tell you hear and now that this will be easier than making a grab for a double hose regulator mouthpiece.

Senario 2.. If you are in a public dive boat setting or a busy shore dive site with many disassociated divers then the lone diver out of the blue is more of a possibility. And it will come down to how well you have trained to work with your configuration and how you manage the situation.

I would make the necklace (with surgical tubing) long enough to allow some flexibility. As with any "non long hose diver" you should be well practiced in deploying your alternate second.

All this being said inventions occur for reason and this may be a solution in search of a problem. The common regulator retrieval techniques seem to serve most of us quite well. If you are removing your regulator on a surface pause consider hanging it down your right shoulder instead of tossing it aside.

Pete

 

[Nemrod]

We bungee our octopus seconds with either the Manta type retainer or bungee cord with a fisherman's knot. This keeps the octo up close and prevents it from dangling and it can be quickly deployed to the OOA diver.

Tech divers did not invent the necklace, they have been around forever and were once supplied with the regulators, usually with brass snaps that could easily be pulled free. The modern use of the fisherman knot is superior in that it provides a quicker and more dependable break away but even that has been around for years.

N

 

[digital_steve]

Mmm... i started reading this but stopped halfway through due to the arguments, so if someone mentioned this already then i apologise

i know of some people that necklace or 'neck tether' their primary for use on long deco's... apparently it saves a nasty surprise if you go half to sleep.
I've also heard of people neck tethering when using rich mixes as a precaution against a tox episode.
in both cases, the necklace was designed so a quick yank could pull it free from the necklace and it could be donated.
one of these divers was gue trained.

 

[renpirate]

Regs failing is not a good argument?

About 3 years ago I had a situation in which that exact scenario happened. I had an OOA diver at 60'. I gave him my octopus and he began to choke, at which point he tried to bolt for the surface.

I found out later that the diaphragm in my octo was improperly seated and he had breathed mostly water. I had just picked the reg up from being serviced and had *assumed* it was fine.

I took away two important lessons from this incident. First, I now always test both regs before entering the water. Second, I practice donating my primary in OOA situations for reasons that have already been explained. Sure, by testing them consistently, I do minimize the chance of that happening again. However, that OOA diver could have died had I not stopped him from rocketing to the surface. I don't plan on making that mistake again.

I figured I would throw out this little tidbit to show that this is not just theory.

 

[Doubler]

I get so sick of hearing this is right and that is wrong. The octopus was invented by cave divers to DONATE to the OOA diver because buddy breathing is very hard in an overhead environment. The longer hose, 5 foot to begin with, came about to be attached to the OCTOPUS because it was hard to navigate narrow passages while donating air. This allowed the donatee to follow behind and communicate with hand signals. The move to the 7 foot hose on the primary again came about in the cave diving community. It allows doffing gear and moving through squeezes. Another reason for putting the longer hose on the primary was the invention of the Scubapro Air II. No cavers I know use the Air II. At least this is what I was taught when I went through my NSSCDS course in 1980.
Rec divers on the other hand should/can have the longer hose on the Octopus and use it as it was originally designed, to donate to the OOA diver. I have used mine on many occasions, when divemastering, to pass to the 40 lb overweight, cigar smoker that sucked down 3000 psi in 15 minutes. This allows that diver to swim at a comfortable distance but still leaves you in control. I always breath on my Octopus for about 1 minute each dive to ensure it is functioning correctly. I also breath on my buddies Octopus for the same reason. IMO the only time a Rec diver gives up his primary is if that is the absolute last option. I also love to watch divers drag the Octopus through the sand and fire coral, a real good reason to take their primary Mine is safely secured to my BC.

 

[XXXL]

Everybody seesm to think it is a good idea & then say when somebody panicks & comes to you they will have trouble taking the alternate.

Most people when they panick will go to the reg that they know works ie the one in your mouth. Having the alternate bungee'd around your neck is not an issue. It is possible to put the reg in your mouth with the bungee still inplace & breathe normally. Incidently most I have seen are made out of silicone rubber & the mouth piece slips into a tiny slot. by pulling on it, it somes comes out. I have seen alternates stored everywhere, but surely the best place is near to where you need it most, ie hanging around your neck ready any time (IMHO of course)

 

[ianr33]

IMO the only time a Rec diver gives up his primary is if that is the absolute last option.

Whatever dude.

 

[TSandM]

I think I have been very careful not to say anything here is "wrong". I have my personal reasons for configuring my gear and my procedures the way I do. I have given others lots of space to do what they want; all I care about is that incorrect information about the procedures I have adopted are not promulgated.

 

[David P]

Boxcar, Not jumping on you, but truly curious... how do you find a simple loop of hose that slides right off the back of your head (assuming you're not wearing a snorkel) and extends out a good 3 feet or so in front of you; is more complex and dangerous than reaching for a reg that is tied off somehow to your Dring, pulling it out, but you cant extend the hose any further from your chest until you reach back and pull the hose out of a bungee that is tied to your tank?

You don't see the possibility of the long hose coming out of your storage behind you and getting caught on something?

Now a little jump on ya:
who called you a liar? You are the only person slinging that word around
I have never seen anyone with a long hose who has trained with it have any kind of problems or complaints with donating air.
You say you practice OOG drills @ a safety stop, how do you restow your 5' reg? seems like its a bit easier to loop the hose behind your head, and tuck in in your belt or under your light. No contortion or buddies needed for storing it...
I am not calling you a liar, I believe that you tried a 5' hose, I would have to honestly say that I agree with others who said that you probably just have not been properly trained so that you feel comfortable with it.

One last question, ignoring tech/cave diving; simply recreational diving here... what makes your idea better than what many of us are doing? (again not jumping ya, just trying to see the logic here)

My way, someone comes up looking like they need some gas
Step one: grab long hose at fitting on side of reg
Step two: duck head and extend right arm out
done The recipient is breathing, now unloop the hose from under the light or pull it out of the waist band

Your way.
Step one: grab reg
Step two: rip reg out of constraint
cant donate yet, hose is neatly tucked behind you somewhere and wont extend past your chest
Step three:switch reg to left hand
step four: reach back with right hand and grab bungeed hose
step five: pull out long hose
step six: switch reg back to right hand and extend arm

ok if you first grab the reg across your body with your left hand and donate with your left hand you can cut it down to 4 steps. Honestly I don't see how this is better?

 

[Oxy]

quote: LOWVIZ How so? You asked a question that has more than one reasonable answer, pick one that suits you.

NO!
don't pick one
Be like me and change your mind every time you read one of these posts.
Seriously
I want to get a Delta4, I heard it has a shorter(than normal)hose because it has a swivel on the 2nd stage. If it can't be simply changed to a 7ft(seems excessive) I may have to change my mind again.
Getting a BP/W and think I want to combo the octo&inflater eliminating the need for the bungy.(still in the process of changing mind here) Classes would be easier with a standard long hose octo and I would get to keep my Delta