Do you use reg. necklace for your primary?

[scubafanatic]

So if you plan to donate your octo, what is the purpose of putting it in a bungee. The whole idea of a proper bungee is to have that reg very secure in a location that can be immdeiately found when you donate your primary. Why wouldn't you just clip off the octo somewhere that is easy for someone to grab if you aren't going to donate the primary? I'm missing the logic with this one.

And Poseidon regs, tech computers, dual-bladder wings as proper DIR? Were you attempting sarcasm with that one?

...the octo bungie places it exactly where I want it in the event I'm the one needing it if my primary 2nd-stage fails......also, in that position, I'll be immediately aware if the octo leaks/freeflows for any reason...it's as good a place to 'clip off' an octo as any and is just as readily available to an OOA diver as any other location.

...and to keep this thread on track, I'm not going to get into a 'let's define DIR' hijack.

Karl

 

[battles2a5]

But the bungee is not designed (or suppose to be designed) to come off. That's my point, if the intent is to donate the octo, it should be easy to deploy. If you have a bungee that is easy to remove, you have negated the utility of the bungee. I'll let the DIR thing go (I'm not a DIR diver) but if I remember correctly, you started it

 

[onfloat]

Maybe you missed my point, which was if someone claims that their regs fail 10% of the time, they have a lot more problems to worry about then this discussion. If their regs hardly fail at all, why do they use a failed reg as the rational for donating the primary?

Rather than going back through your post point by point, let me cut to just this question.

How often does your alt reg not work when doing air shares? Could you express that in "1 out of every X times I donate". I presume you test both regs before you dive.

It's a matter of perspective. It's not a failed reg, it's an unknown reg. The idea is donate a known good reg (with the right gas for depth), because the OOA diver is already having a problem, and I don't want to make it worse. The one bungied under your neck should work too, and you'll be going to it, so it had better work. The fact that it's tied around your neck makes it difficult to donate. All of this is building blocks for moving further in training and more advanced dives. It may not be the reg that's tied off doesn't work, but has the wrong gas for the depth your at. As someone who moves farther along in technical training you will have more than one reg tied off. (I know this was started as a recreational dive scenario.)

This is the problem with picking and chosing methods from different systems, you end up with a convoluted mess. I have seen some divers that read a few things and think they understand, but they couldn't donate any reg they are so tangled. That usually ends up being defended with "Well, I like it and it works for me." Which is all fine and good until the feces hits the oscillating device.

 

[lowviz]

All of this is building blocks for moving further in training and more advanced dives. It may not be the reg that's tied off doesn't work, but has the wrong gas for the depth your at. As someone who moves farther along in technical training you will have more than one reg tied off. (I know this was started as a recreational dive scenario.)

A fresh point worth noting by those of us intending to head in that direction.

 

[TSandM]

BTW, for everybody's information, a long hose and bungied backup is not a DIR thing. It is definitely a technical or cave diving thing, although a good many purely recreational open water divers have adopted the arrangement because it makes sense.

 

[battles2a5]

I don't think he was referring to the long hose/ bungeed octo as the "DIR thing". It was the reference to Poseidon upstream regs, dual-bladder wings, and deco computers as "DIR" equipment.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

QFT!

Boxcar, you may have used a long hose for your primary, but it doesn't sound like you got the right mentoring to get enough experience in how to deploy it efficiently. That's what's creating all the buzz.

I don't think anyone cares if you stow your alternate reg on a long hose with a bungie, but people do care if you spread misinformation about another configuration you clearly aren't implementing correctly.

HTH

If you read back, this all started because I casually mentioned that I don't do it the tec way, because I like the old school way better. Then someone wrote a point-by-point response asking me why, asking me to defend my position.

Next thing you know people are saying I'm a liar, that I've never tried it the other way, and now you come to say that I just didn't try it the right way. I'm just not competent, according to your post.

Why can't you just accept that I've tried it and I don't believe it is the better way to stow a hose for recreational purposes? It's not that I didn't know how to do it, it's not that I'm a liar. I just tried both methods and found one way to better than the other.

It is not hard to configuration either way. It's very easy, in fact. I'll say this part again, because it seems to be getting lost: stowing the hose behind my head was NOT hard - particularly if it was an easy, controlled air share. But of the two methods, it was the more complicated, dangerous, and less easy way to deploy.

Further, the arguments against the method I use don't strike me as intellectually honest. People use the arguments, I guess because there may be some theoretically basis to them and they probably heard it from people they respect. But in the real world, they know that they aren't true. The fact that they know the risk are insignificant doesn't stop them from using those arguments as though they were significant.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

It's a matter of perspective. It's not a failed reg, it's an unknown reg. The idea is donate a known good reg (with the right gas for depth), because the OOA diver is already having a problem, and I don't want to make it worse. The one bungied under your neck should work too, and you'll be going to it, so it had better work. The fact that it's tied around your neck makes it difficult to donate. All of this is building blocks for moving further in training and more advanced dives. It may not be the reg that's tied off doesn't work, but has the wrong gas for the depth your at. As someone who moves farther along in technical training you will have more than one reg tied off. (I know this was started as a recreational dive scenario.)

That makes sense to me. I really do appreciate that information. I could see why people who are doing tec diving would want it that way. But as you said, this conversation is all about recreational diving.

 

[onfloat]

It is not hard to configuration either way. It's very easy, in fact. I'll say this part again, because it seems to be getting lost: stowing the hose behind my head was NOT hard - particularly if it was an easy, controlled air share. But of the two methods, it was the more complicated, dangerous, and less easy way to deploy.

The fact you say this, leads most of us to believe that you have not been trained to use a long hose and perpetraiting myths that simply do not exist.

Further, the arguments against the method I use don't strike me as intellectually honest. People use the arguments, I guess because there may be some theoretically basis to them and they probably heard it from people they respect. But in the real world, they know that they aren't true. The fact that they know the risk are insignificant doesn't stop them from using those arguments as though they were significant.

What??? I have read this a number of times and you lost me. Most of the divers that have given you their view have done real world dives with a long hose configuration.
It's seems your hell bent on proving a proven system as bad.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

What??? I have read this a number of times and you lost me. Most of the divers that have given you their view have done real world dives with a long hose configuration.
It's seems your hell bent on proving a proven system as bad.

I'm talking about the argument which says "donate the primary to ensure a working reg", which I consider a bankrupt argument for a recreational diver. But people still use the argument, for whatever reason.

And it's not me attacking anything. I am defending the way I dive, and people keep telling me that I"m wrong. They keep telling me that their way is better, and the reason why I don't see it is because I haven't trained in it properly, or I'm a liar, or I haven't used it right.

I've never said the other system is bad. I've only said that of the two systems I like the old school one better - of the two systems I find mine safer and easier. And the only reason I even said that is because someone posted as if there was only one right way to dive, and that is by donating a long hose primary. When I demurred, another poster insisted I defend the proposition.

Now you act as though I am the one who is attacking your system, without acknowledging that this entire thread is one where people have been attacking mine. Because I won't acknowledge that your system is both safer and easier than mine, than ipso facto I am in incompetent liar.