Do you use reg. necklace for your primary?

[texdiveguy]

Are you saying that tech computers and dual bladder wings are DIR ??

We both know that it is really DIMWIT!

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

:no

Primary on a long hose, and if you remove the primary to talk, you should be holding it ready to return to your mouth...thus the primary is always, "right there".

Dive safe.

I've thought about it, and tried it, different ways.

I think most recreational divers would be better off having their long hose on their octo secured to their right chest D-ring (which can break away in an emergency) with the extra length stowed in a bungie on the tank. The primary on a short hose.

If the main reason you have a long hose is because you will be doing repeated tank changes or other lots of buddy breathing, then a long hose on your primary makes sense (as well as routing the hose around your body and behind your head.)

But if you are a recreational diver, and the long hose is simple for an emergency OOA situation, a long hose that is inside a bungie on the tank and connected to the octo is better practice imo.

I only mention this because you used the :no symbol, possibly implying that there is only one right way to do it. I think there are other right ways, and indeed, in my opinion this right way is better in emergency OOA situations.

 

[Plumb bob]

I've thought about it, and tried it, different ways.

I think most recreational divers would be better off having their long hose on their octo secured to their right chest D-ring (which can break away in an emergency) with the extra length stowed in a bungie on the tank. The primary on a short hose.

Why?

If the main reason you have a long hose is because you will be doing repeated tank changes or other lots of buddy breathing, then a long hose on your primary makes sense (as well as routing the hose around your body and behind your head.)

Huh?

But if you are a recreational diver, and the long hose is simple for an emergency OOA situation, a long hose that is inside a bungie on the tank and connected to the octo is better practice imo.

Once again, why?

I only mention this because you used the :no symbol, possibly implying that there is only one right way to do it. I think there are other right ways, and indeed, in my opinion this right way is better in emergency OOA situations.

You've only offered a configuration without any reason why, I for one don't agree with your notions but I am curious to know any possible rationale behind it..

 

[TSandM]

I disagree. A long hose (of whatever length) bungied to the tank is a potential problem if it comes loose behind the diver and isn't seen. If it does get caught or come loose, the diver can't easily restow it.

A roughly 5' hose routes very neatly around the diver's body, is not an entanglement hazard, and can be replaced neatly by the diver without anyone's help if it is donated or otherwise out of place. A 7' hose requires some way to secure it and is not needed, outside of situations that force single file progress, which would be vanishingly rare for recreational divers. In actual practice, a 4' hose just run under the arm works okay, but it does not sit as close to the body and requires some kind of angled connection to sit comfortably in the mouth.

I firmly believe that donating the primary is the best approach, because it's extremely fast and guarantees a working reg to the person under stress. I would never say it is the only way to solve the problem, but I see virtually no downside to it, and many advantages.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

If an OOA diver comes screaming up to you in a panic, trying to get the designated donor reg, what is the result if:

A: You have that hose wrapped behind your head, down your body, and behind a light cannister?
B: You have the reg on your D ring that he can easily pull free to breath?

In one scenario your mask and light is left at the bottom of the ocean, and you may be strangling because the panicked diver didn't wait for you to neatly pull the reg from behind your head.

The other scenario is almost fool proof. The length of the hose deploy automatically, with virtually no risk of entangling in your gear.

The risk for a rec diver is the panicked OOA diver. I think that problem is more neatly solved by having a reg that is both easy to donate and not wrapped behind your head and around your equipment. Look at your own gear selection and ask yourself, "if a panicked driver tried to get my designated donner hose, what would happen?" Don't think about the neat donation, where you hand it off by-the-textbook. Either method will work fine for that. But think about when the other diver is making moves your not in control of, do you want the donating hose wrapped around your body and gear? In that analysis, a bungied octo seems superior.


I consider the argument about "ensuring a working reg" specious, simple because of the many different times I've practiced donating regs, I've neither gotten nor given a non-working reg. Perhaps others have a different experience. Perhaps it happens 1 in 10 times for them, (but if so, I would have to question the servicing and selection of their gear!) But I think the odds of an OOA diver coming up to get my reg on the one occasion that my reg didn't work to be very close to zero. Certainly, balancing that risk against the risk of having the reg warped around my body like an anaconda, I think the former is one I can more easily bare.


I haven't had the issue of my hose coming out of the bungie and at the same time becoming unfastened from my D ring. I can't believe it is a common problem, but to the extent it is, it seems to be a fairly trivial problem for a rec diver to have, and can be restowed, (or not) by your dive buddy. Maybe in a cave the calculations are different. But in recreational diving, both the risk and consequences of that scenario are negligible.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

... further

This is an easy enough problem to test out. Get in the pool, have a friend pretend to be panicking and grab your donating reg out of your mouth for a breath. Try it first with the req wrapped behind your head and around your light. Next try it off the D-ring with the extra length in a bungie around the tank. See which way you're more comfortable with.

To me, one way seems pretty dangerous. As I sit here, I can't easily think of a more elaborate and dangerous way to stow your emergency donating hose. The other way seems close to automatic.

In other words, I don't know what problem we're trying to solve by wrapping our donating hose behind our head and around our equipment, but it's not the problem of an emergency OOA diver trying to steal a breath from you.

 

[TSandM]

Boxcar, it is pretty clear to me that you do not and have not dived a long hose. The problems you describe do not exist. If somebody yanks on my primary regulator, all I need to do is duck my head and the hose comes off, giving plenty of length for the person to breathe. If they're unfamiliar with the setup (and they are, if they grabbed my reg) they won't be struggling to pull free MORE hose, and I'll have hold of them.

Lots of people imagine issues with the long hose that simply don't exist in practice. But there's no need for you to use one if you don't want to, and you are welcome to stuff a long hose on your tank if you like. I would just like to be sure that people reading this realize that the problems are theoretical, not real.

 

[Plumb bob]

Well said TSandM..

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

Boxcar, it is pretty clear to me that you do not and have not dived a long hose. The problems you describe do not exist. If somebody yanks on my primary regulator, all I need to do is duck my head and the hose comes off, giving plenty of length for the person to breathe. If they're unfamiliar with the setup (and they are, if they grabbed my reg) they won't be struggling to pull free MORE hose, and I'll have hold of them.

Lots of people imagine issues with the long hose that simply don't exist in practice. But there's no need for you to use one if you don't want to, and you are welcome to stuff a long hose on your tank if you like. I would just like to be sure that people reading this realize that the problems are theoretical, not real.

You are completely mistaken, and way off base. In fact, I still have a long hose (if you consider 5 foot long), and only switched back to the bungied method within the last week. Because of that configuration, I didn't need to, and couldn't if I wanted to, wrap it under a light. It went straight from right arm pit to left side of head, around the back, to the right side of my face and into the mouth. An argument could be made that I should have went with a 6 foot hose, given I'm a 6'3 male with a big frame, and therefore the hose was tighter on me than a 7 foot may be on you. But for you to say this is all theory, and not real, and it's clear to you that I've never dived that arrangement is not only wrong, but it is an insult to me. And it's a very weak defense of your argument.

The irony is, all of your defenses of your method, and attacks on mine, were based on theory, not reality. You started off by talking about how dangerous a dangling hose might be, when if fact most divers don't even stow any of their their hoses half the time. It's not the right way, and it bangs up the coral, but for you to start your criticism with that tells me you may not be arguing in good faith. (No offense, but do you really see the potential of an unstowed hose as a real life, non theoretical, problem for a rec diver?)

Then you used the tired old line about donating a non-working reg, which in theory may be a problem, but I contend that real life doesn't support that as a significant risk. Let me ask you, how often does your alt reg not work, and if it is close to never, why did you bring it up? Let me propose an answer for that - because you were interested in theoretical problems, not real problems, when you were responding.

Finally, I would add these last two comments. If you're a petite women with a 7 foot hose, you may want to consider that a large male with a 5 foot hose may have a different experience than you. That doesn't mean you should basically call them a liar, and say they've never tried it the way they clearly are implying. You are on one extreme of the spectrum of how easy it is to deploy a hose in your configuration. People toward the other end of the spectrum have experiences that may differ. Second, I suggest that just lowering their head will not get every diver out of their OOA panicked diver situation, like you are suggesting. If the panicked diver is on the other side of the body, or lower, it may not be as easy as you are saying.

I don't know. I just expected better from you than just to imply that I'm a liar and ask people not to believe me.

 

[onfloat]

If an OOA diver comes screaming up to you in a panic, trying to get the designated donor reg, what is the result if:

A: You have that hose wrapped behind your head, down your body, and behind a light cannister?

He gets it out of my mouth, I duck my head it's all his, I untuck it from my light. Easy!!!!

B: You have the reg on your D ring that he can easily pull free to breath?

I guess he has to find it first. It's not really a breakaway, becuase it's tied with cave line to the snap bolt. Now we're both trying to get it off my chest. Convoluted at best!!

In one scenario your mask and light is left at the bottom of the ocean, and you may be strangling because the panicked diver didn't wait for you to neatly pull the reg from behind your head.

How does the light come off my belt? Steel clamps and 2 inch webbing just don't give. And when he does grab it the hose will come off with out pulling my mask off and so what if it does, I have another in my pocket.

The other scenario is almost fool proof. The length of the hose deploy automatically, with virtually no risk of entangling in your gear.

Let's see first the diver has to identify where your reg is. If the need to restow it after the OOA has been solved (Free flow fixed, etc....), How do you restow the hose length? Deploys automatically vertually no risk of entangling...LOL

The risk for a rec diver is the panicked OOA diver. I think that problem is more neatly solved by having a reg that is both easy to donate and not wrapped behind your head and around your equipment. Look at your own gear selection and ask yourself, "if a panicked driver tried to get my designated donner hose, what would happen?" Don't think about the neat donation, where you hand it off by-the-textbook. Either method will work fine for that. But think about when the other diver is making moves your not in control of, do you want the donating hose wrapped around your body and gear? In that analysis, a bungied octo seems superior.

Instead of thinking about it go out and dive the problem, I'll bet you'll be surprised.

I consider the argument about "ensuring a working reg" specious, simple because of the many different times I've practiced donating regs, I've neither gotten nor given a non-working reg.

How many times during a real emergeny?

Perhaps others have a different experience. Perhaps it happens 1 in 10 times for them, (but if so, I would have to question the servicing and selection of their gear!) But I think the odds of an OOA diver coming up to get my reg on the one occasion that my reg didn't work to be very close to zero.

I'm sure your thought about the problem will make that 10% Alright

Certainly, balancing that risk against the risk of having the reg warped around my body like an anaconda, I think the former is one I can more easily bare.

And the risk to your team?

I haven't had the issue of my hose coming out of the bungie and at the same time becoming unfastened from my D ring. I can't believe it is a common problem, but to the extent it is, it seems to be a fairly trivial problem for a rec diver to have, and can be restowed, (or not) by your dive buddy. Maybe in a cave the calculations are different. But in recreational diving, both the risk and consequences of that scenario are negligible.

True enough, but I would hate to be on a dive when it's a 10% day.