Do instructors not like to sell BP/W?

[leapfrog]

To answer the main question, why do instructors have to sell anything?

It's goes with the terrain. At dive stores, instructors do everything from cleaning the heads, rinsing the rental gear, fixing equipment, filling the tanks.... and rotate as retail staff to attend people who come in the store looking for courses, dives and/or equipment.

A lot of divers find it reassuring to buy equipment from an instructor, especially if they have trained or dived with that instructor who will usually either know how much and what kind of diving the customer does or will ask relevant questions.

At large specialist dive equipment stores, most of the staff are either instructors or DMs and that is one of the qualifications the store insists on to hire somebody. It makes sense for a lot of divers who live and work in cities because they will have there regs and other pieces of equipment serviced there, often by the same person who sold them the equipment in the first place. The store becomes a social gathering point where people can stop by on their way home after work, ask questions they have about equipment they are thinking of buying, chat about diving and so on. Many stores like this organise trips for their patrons.

Manufacturers want instructors to sell their equipment and often organise seminars and visits to the stores to familiarise instructors with equipment and answer any questions about it. Having a relevant instructor-level qualification is often a prerequisite to work as a salesperson for a manufacturer.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

It's goes with the terrain. At dive stores, instructors do everything from cleaning the heads, rinsing the rental gear, fixing equipment, filling the tanks.... and rotate as retail staff to attend people who come in the store looking for courses, dives and/or equipment.

A lot of divers find it reassuring to buy equipment from an instructor, especially if they have trained or dived with that instructor who will usually either know how much and what kind of diving the customer does or will ask relevant questions.

At large specialist dive equipment stores, most of the staff are either instructors or DMs and that is one of the qualifications the store insists on to hire somebody. It makes sense for a lot of divers who live and work in cities because they will have there regs and other pieces of equipment serviced there, often by the same person who sold them the equipment in the first place. The store becomes a social gathering point where people can stop by on their way home after work, ask questions they have about equipment they are thinking of buying, chat about diving and so on. Many stores like this organise trips for their patrons.

Manufacturers want instructors to sell their equipment and often organise seminars and visits to the stores to familiarise instructors with equipment and answer any questions about it. Having a relevant instructor-level qualification is often a prerequisite to work as a salesperson for a manufacturer.

OK, and to take it one step further and to answer the initial question, why don't instructors like to sell BP/W to their students then? If it makes no difference and the shop is making the same amount of money wether it be jackets or BP/W why aren't they doing it?

 

[Gombessa]

OK, and to take it one step further and to answer the initial question, why don't instructors like to sell BP/W to their students then? If it makes no difference and the shop is making the same amount of money wether it be jackets or BP/W why aren't they doing it?

A BC, like the weight ditch and CESA manuevers, is a security blanket for new students. When I first started OW class, my intuition, as I suspect most peoples', was that in the event of emergency, you should lose as much of that 50lb of garbage holding your body down and make a beeline for the surface.

Ditching weight, performing a CESA, and wearing a big, loose BC with quick releases and velcro cummerbund make that goal easy, and I remember specifically noting how to get out of my gear ASAP in case I needed to. Even a few dives out of OW, when I was sure I wanted to go with a bp/w with hog harness, the idea of a weighted backplate and hard-to-doff harness still bothered me.

I think this type of initial unease is what prevents many instructors and shops from pushing bp/w more, especially if their OW programs are more focused on getting students in and out as fast as possible.

 

[Teamcasa]

OK, and to take it one step further and to answer the initial question, why don't instructors like to sell BP/W to their students then? If it makes no difference and the shop is making the same amount of money wether it be jackets or BP/W why aren't they doing it?

Here is a post I made for that same question.

Just purely from a business point of view.

What is the typical profit margin for a backplate wing and harness vs a traditional jacket BC?
What sells better?

How many times will the BP/W turn over vs a jacket BC.

Traditional BC's are supported by national advertising in virtually ever Scuba Magazine and publication. This means, I as the LDS, do not have to advertise them, thus lowering my inventory costs.

These sorts of questions point to the real reason BP/Wings are not sold in most of your local dive shops. It has nothing to do with the dive ability or quality, and everything to due with economics.

 

[fisheater]

I suspect that the main reason your Main Street LDS prefers to sell jacket BCs over BP/W is that the jackets are big dollar items from the main line manufacturers. To keep their dealership, the LDS must sell and stock a considerable amount. Plus, the more they sell, the fatter their margins become through lower wholesale pricing. So, a BP/W sale is a step away from meeting their goals.


Posted via Mobile Device

 

[leapfrog]

OK, and to take it one step further and to answer the initial question, why don't instructors like to sell BP/W to their students then? If it makes no difference and the shop is making the same amount of money wether it be jackets or BP/W why aren't they doing it?

I already answered this with respect to OW Students/Divers and it has nothing to do with money or my personal preferences.

I would not contemplate putting my students on a BP/W for the following reasons:
1. I want them to train on the gear that they are going to find for rent with me or any other place they go diving. Worldwide.
2. I don't believe in rushing or cajoling students into buying equipment (except mask, fins, snorkel and booties); I would rather they spent the money on diving and training and made up their own minds about equipment choices. I also am a believer in divers buying their equipment one piece at a time and real slow with an informed opinion after having spoken to other divers and spent some time on Scubaboard.
3. Buoyancy, IMHO, is not just about attaining perfect horizontal trim. In fact I like students to get buoyant in any position.
4. I have a "surface safety issue" with BCDs and BP/Ws. Yes, this is a pet peeve but I take it very seriously. It's not just about the diver knowing how to handle his BP/W on the surface to not go smack face down but about other divers knowing to handle a BP/W in case of an emergency.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Uneducated.....Most don't understand them. Its that Vodoo tech thingy...tech is dangerous mentality.

We show them to everyone looking for a BC, some like the idea, others like the BCs. They are different things for different folks.

Those that do not have them are really missing out on a part of business. Some people want them, and without carrying them, they are not helping their customers 100%.

Lets be honest, if you have never seen one, and you are supposed to sell it, or even set it up, it can be a bit intimidating for someone who has no clue about them and has only seen pics or the "tech guy" at the quarry. They might also think they are only for Tech Divers.....most shops just don't know enough about them.

Most of the guys coming in to shop X to sell them equipment, don't carry BP/Ws so the shop owner never really knows enough about them....its like being made fun of for not riding a bike...everyone has one, but Mom and Dad never showed you how...its intimidating.

 

[RAWalker]

A new diver may already be task loaded just trying to attain proper trim, manage there buoyancy and navigate.
Next add in diving under different conditions like learning in warm water and going on a cold water trip. This very often involves a thicker wetsuit so again they need to figure out trim and manage buoyancy.
All this before logging enough dives with these variables to give them a insight into the changes needed to their configuration for these conditions.
So add in a BP&W with it's multitude of configuration options and it is just too much for most new divers to deal with.
For this reason a mainstream jacket style BC often is a better choice until a diver has better understanding of what effects differing configurations will have. At that point the diver is better equipped to deal with some of the extra variables and truely optimize any equipment package to their needs.
Some will find there way to a BP&W while other will find BCD with different features and/or characteristics that suit them.

 

[cool_hardware52]

So add in a BP&W with it's multitude of configuration options and it is just too much for most new divers to deal with.

Not if they had sound presale advice. There's really not much to a BP&W.

To try and present BP&W as too complicated for a new diver is just silly.

Compared to many jackets a hog rigged BP&W is essence of simplicity.

Tobin

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

A new diver may already be task loaded just trying to attain proper trim, manage there buoyancy and navigate.
Next add in diving under different conditions like learning in warm water and going on a cold water trip. This very often involves a thicker wetsuit so again they need to figure out trim and manage buoyancy.
All this before logging enough dives with these variables to give them a insight into the changes needed to their configuration for these conditions.
So add in a BP&W with it's multitude of configuration options and it is just too much for most new divers to deal with.
For this reason a mainstream jacket style BC often is a better choice until a diver has better understanding of what effects differing configurations will have. At that point the diver is better equipped to deal with some of the extra variables and truely optimize any equipment package to their needs.
Some will find there way to a BP&W while other will find BCD with different features and/or characteristics that suit them.

I see it a bit differently.
New students taking open water in cold water stuffed into a thick 7mm wetsuit, they wear a mask that to us seems like a ton of peripheral view but to them seems like looking through a pipe underwater. Add the bulk of a modern jacket or even rear inflate cross over with all the padding, pockets, big weight pouches, useless d-rings everywhere. I think modern BC's are contraptions and add a level of anxiety to an already foreign sensation. The poor people already feel like sausages stuffed into those suits now on top of it some instructor /shop stuffs them further into an overstuffed contraption and probably no less overweighted so the student can drop down feet first as soon as they dump the air. This means the instructors purposely overweighted them so they would'nt have to deal with them wiggling around on the surface trying to get down (they don't teach skin diving anymore). That means that they have to put a good amount of air into their contraptions to keep them floating which means the jacket they are most likely using is squeezing in on them making them feel really uncomfortable like a sausage in a barbecue ready to explode, and the anxiety level gets real high when they feel like they cant breath.
I used to watch this almost every weekend at the breakwater. God those poor people!

I just think most shops, or at least the one around here, operate in a bubble.
I don't really think they care what they sell as long as they make money and the rent and employees are covered at the end of the month. I also think that they have an attitude of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". They don't care what works better, as long as students come in the door, get certified, buy gear and leave. Oh yeah, and also book a dive trip a few times a year through the shop.
I think a lot of them are burned out from doing retail, and owning the shop is just a way to eek out a mediocre living. They don't see why they should work that much harder to promote something, get it in the store, go through the percieved learning curve (?) etc. for something that will make them about the same money with the same amount of new people walking through the front door.

That's what I think.