Do certs matter to you?

[rmediver2002]

Well, some do. Some are a waste of plastic.

My frequent dive buddy Karen recently completed her PADI instructor cert. In order to be qualified to teach "specialties," she needs to issue 25 certification cards which can be for OW, AOW and Peak performance buoyancy and DM. So to get her numbers up, she asked me if I would let her do my PPB cert (no charge of course). We're planning to do it Monday - bet my buoyancy is better than hers wink Hope she doesn't expect me to wear a snorkel.

I have not heard of that one, is it newer?

Sounds like a good class, how long is it? I wonder why they did not just include the techniques in the basic or advanced course...


I for one would take any training offered for free, there is always something you can pick up whether it is from the instructor or the students...

I guess part of my beef is the commercialism of it all...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well, some do. Some are a waste of plastic.

My frequent dive buddy Karen recently completed her PADI instructor cert. In order to be qualified to teach "specialties," she needs to issue 25 certification cards which can be for OW, AOW and Peak performance buoyancy and DM. So to get her numbers up, she asked me if I would let her do my PPB cert (no charge of course). We're planning to do it Monday - bet my buoyancy is better than hers wink Hope she doesn't expect me to wear a snorkel.

You're doing the course in your doubles, I assume? Yeah, that snorkel might throw your trim all outta whack ...

FWIW - all a cert card means is that you took the course and passed the minimal requirements for the curriculum ... it says nothing about what you actually learned.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MechDiver]

D,

I'm sorry, but I have to chime in. If instructors like you took more control of your instructor peers to stop the trend of greed vs. actual training, I think it would improve.

When LDS owners/instructors started giving divers flack about not having a certification for things like Dry Suit certs, I pretty much lost all faith in the system. Nitrox? Yes. Advanced Nitrox? Yes. Underwater Photographer? Come on!

J

This is called free enterprise. The LDS/instructors are free to suggest you take a course, you are free to say yes or no. This is how we work, play and live in just about anything we do. Why do you think scuba should be in a class by itself?
You want a TV? Or do you also want the remote, VCR, DVD HGTV? There is no difference.
People with more money than sense are not unique to diving.

MD

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

*shakes head*

The level of respect (lack of) shown for certification and continuing education in this thread by some of our more experienced members disgusts me.

I have been out of teaching for a while and I am simply sick at what too often passes for certified divers and diving instructors these days. Being a diving instructor used to be a respected profession. It grieves me to no end to see what it has become in many cases.
I am doing my part to try and bring the standards back up to where they should be.
Certification cards impress me just about as much as business cards and job titles.
I was lucky enough to dive with a couple of advanced open water divers on a boat dive in Key Largo a couple of weeks ago. They both had dive club jackets with a lot of new patches sewn on. One of them put his BC on the cylinder upside down and the other tied his octopus down to the shoulder strap of his BP with a short piece of nylon cord. When I asked him why he did it that way he answered " us tek guys do it differently than you regular divers"
What F'n moron certified these guys??
I know that many of us are doing our part to prevent things like that from happening. I only hope we are not too late !

 

[Snowbear]

I have not heard of that one, is it newer?

Sounds like a good class, how long is it? I wonder why they did not just include the techniques in the basic or advanced course...

Peak Performance Buoyancy is a PADI "specialty." I don't know how new it is. I think it's 2 dives and the "classroom" part we'll probably do during the drive. To answer your last question - uh - well - you could start a whole new thread on that topic (or do a search and find many already started)

You're doing the course in your doubles, I assume? Yeah, that snorkel might throw your trim all outta whack ...

No doubles - they're still in Seattle in Karen's trunk.

 

[rmediver2002]

Being a diving instructor used to be a respected profession.

So much so that it became saturated... More instructors than there was a demand for from students...

Part of the drive for so many different qualifications to offer something unique to teach... Instructors need students...

It would be great if the instructors quality and reputation were what brought students in but in most cases it is not...

All these gripes come back to one central item... diving has grown to large now... Maybe it grew to fast or to far but the forethought was not there... Everything is going back and attempting to repair damage that has already been done.

The success of GUE / DIR is a prime example... The orginization is small enough to control, to have dicipline, individual instructor reputations, and standards... If it continues to grow (and it obviously has and exceeded nearly anyone's expectations) it to may crumble under the weight of it's own success...

No easy answers...

 

[Uncle Pug]

No doubles - they're still in Seattle in Karen's trunk.

I though you were shipping them home?

So.... are you riding the pony? wink

 

[Falcon99]

This is called free enterprise. The LDS/instructors are free to suggest you take a course, you are free to say yes or no. This is how we work, play and live in just about anything we do. Why do you think scuba should be in a class by itself?
You want a TV? Or do you also want the remote, VCR, DVD HGTV? There is no difference.
People with more money than sense are not unique to diving.

MD

Roger that. I agree completely that this fully supports divers who desire specific training. However, I DO know some people that if I bought a dry suit and started diving in it, they wouldn't leave me alone about not having the course.

 

[NAM001]

I place as much blame if not more on the divers themselves, if they are in fact a danger to themselves or others.

Certification agencies are like (well should be like) a library of knowledge, all divers from super-master-blaster-instructor-training-coordinater-blah-blah-blah down to the newest OW need to continue to refine the skills known, and just as importantly searching out new sources of knowledge... One of the best is looking at the mistakes or problems of the past and thinking about ways to solves them.

Anyone who fails to train is going to lose skills, training for diving is diving...

Jeff Lane

i agree completely. may i add that the certifications are only for the status at the end of the trainng, fail to maintain your livel and you have nothing but a WORTHLESS c-card that gives you access to places you shouldnt go any more. as a former instructor of 7 years (not scuba) i know how that works. use it or loose it. even those who do not retain their expertice ,,do retain something if not caution. the pipeline for training for me is update in technologies. heck for those who have more than 20-30 years behind you, look how the industry has changed. bc's computers no more j-valves electrolung come and gone. for those who train over time this is valuable. if you are going to go from ow to gods personal trainer in 1 year it is a different story. my dollars are worth no less than others. i want to get the most out of any training i get. i put a lot of time into it. when i did my aow i spent a week doing it, reading reserching looking at products on the market that perhaps by the course guidelines/opinions had problems with them for my perticular body experience ect.
for anyone who knows me they only need to reference my inquireees on nitrox mixes and using tables for repeditive dives with out the use of the ead wheel. it drew its share of heat from the comments but it also brought up more questions on my part as well as others. i feel pretty competant with my abilities. i spent the bucks and it got me refresher, update, a c-card/ dive pass to events and prereq to further training. i will take a rescue course, not for myself but for those who throw away the knowledge and save the card.

in submarines there wan only one statistic that really mattered.

does surfaces equal dives???? IF NOT liberty is secured for all hands untill they match.

KWS

 

[cornfed]

All I truely care about is those cards that are actually needed for something. AOW to get on all the boats I care to get on. Nitrox to get the fills I need. Adv Nitrox to get the deco fills I need. Trimix to get the fills I want. Cave to get where I want to get to.

I see absolutely, positively, no use for a Chainmail Shark Diver card, or whatever else they thought up to make a buck.

When I got my AOW card I insisted that the shop check if there was a lower registration fee for just card without the display certificate and patch. Turns out there was. Funny thing is I once had my AOW card "rejected" in lieu of my OW card. I was filling out a release form and put AOW for level and the date it was issued. However, my AOW card is from SSI and they put your original OW certification date on the card. The guy at the shop refused to accept my explanation of the discrepancy so I had to fill out a new form and use my OW card instead.