Do certs matter to you?

[Snowbear]

I though you were shipping them home?

So.... are you riding the pony? wink

Well first - Karen forgot to ship them (needs to be her doing it so it's cheep). THen she got sick and didn't work for a couple weeks. Now that she's working, all her flights have been in AK, so - maybe next week?

No, the pony's been staying in the barn. wink

 

[chickdiver]

Certifications mean very little to me, in that I view them as "If Joe Diver has X certification, he/she should be able to perform at Y level." As for verification, if I can get someone I know to vouch for the diver in question, I will do a "bunny" dive with them just to get a feel before we progress to anything fun and challenging. Funny thing is, I've got a whole pile of certs because I am an instructor, and I would feel very uncomfortable for anyone to accept that I am competent simply because of those pieces of plastic.

 

[Uncle Pug]

No, the pony's been staying in the barn.

 

[Genesis]

OK, so let's solve this problem.

Let's get diving defined as an "inherently dangerous activity" in the law of the various states, and promote a uniform waiver (under statute) that absolutely bars such suits.

If such a waiver is signed, and a suit is filed anyway, the law can provide that all fees and costs of the person sued are recoverable from the person and counsel that bring the frivolous suit.

Poof - problem solved.

Now a landowner, boatowner, etc just must obtain a legitimately signed waiver from each participant. If they sign it, that's the end of the discussion. The only remaining debate is whether the person really did sign the waiver.

For these kinds of problems there are solutions.

There are activities that are inherently dangerous. Frankly, PADI and the rest do a good job of making the case that SCUBA is one of them - after all, you ARE intentionally putting yourself on life support to go in the water like this!

 

[Snowbear]

Dontcha go dyin' on me now!

Not planning to - but??

 

[NAM001]

I place blame for this in two places:

2. The supply-side (instruction) of the industry issuing the certs to those who pay for them, because the demand has to be filled.

If you want to solve this problem, you have to get rid of the idea that "certifications" are credentials. They are not intended to be and we need to stop treating them as if they are.

This applies to all of the local dive shops, boats, landowners, etc.

Until then the problem won't go away - the shops, boat-owners, cave landowners and agencies are all complicit in this. Nobody gets a pass on this one.

what is the solution for this in a letigious system. if the system did not use them as credentials they would be in court instead of running thier business.
when i started all i needed was a club jacket or walk in wearing a wet suit and i got my choice of regular or pepermint air. not now. of courses my first dive was an solo lake ice dive. hey i was 15, invincable and was not going to let my lawnmower money go to waste. a year later i took my first ymca course. after that the toy had consequences.


KWS

 

[Scott M]

The only remaining debate is whether the person really did sign the waiver.

I would add, and was compitent to sign the waiver at the time of signing.

There are activities that are inherently dangerous. Frankly, PADI and the rest do a good job of making the case that SCUBA is one of them - after all, you ARE intentionally putting yourself on life support to go in the water like this!

This no doubt was brought on by a group of lawyers.

 

[bwerb]

The day it came to me that many certs are totally useless indicators of a divers skills was the day of my Rescue course where one diver didn't have a clue, didn't listen to dive briefings, didn't perform at all underwater, slammed me into a large underwater rock after I told him to stop for the third time. Not only was his performance atrocious, he still passed the course. I mentioned his shortfalls to both the Instructor and the Course Director at the end of the dive day prior to the "you've passed" discussion and the response was that they realized his shortfalls and had noticed the same things but that they would have a lot of time to work on them when he began his DM training the following weekend (after having done AOW the weekend before rescue).

That effectively sealed the deal for me. I have no idea if this guy passed or continued on with his DM and beyond but it really opened my eyes.

 

[NAM001]

I am a graduate of the Navy's Nuclear Power program.

oh my a bloody nuc. of any one that understands the usefuness of maintained profiency verses grad cert .. you do . certs do mean something.
although your nuc power in itself lends nothing to diving. knowing the intensiveness on the program and the degree you guys have to train and cntinually prove your self. i would never question your competancy of the certs you hold.... if for no other reason than you are a nuc.

stsc ss

KWS

 

[NAM001]

Well i am going to get into the process of "collecting cards" over the years, not for the sake of it, but to gain knowledge of an new skill/type of diving and then try to get out and use that new info to dive better. I am not going to try to get the very tough fish ID type ones, but i might like to do a cavern after AOW, rescue and a few others - cos i think i will want to dive in many types of environments that i dont currently do. Do i think it is a "license", of course not, but it gives me a chance of being intoduced to a new sphere of diving that i might kill myself doing IF i didnt get the training.

Will the cards say anything about my diving, watch me in the water and see how i dive, make your own conclusions. I want to learn more, to experience the wide variety of different environments that diving can offer and move more seriously into some of them, so i think the training is very useful - the card at the end is just a reminder that i passed a few tests of what i was taught along the way.

primo ods are you wont take the short cuts just to get the card either.

KWS