Do cave divers need wreck training?

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

I've been on scubaboard for a year and I'm already tired of this debate...

 

[DevonDiver]

A properly trained cave diver has all the skills needed to do wreck penetrations. The wreck diving specific hazards need to be covered for a cave diver conducting wreck dives.

By that rationale, the reverse should also apply equally. But that doesn't happen.

Given equal skill proficiencies, the capabilities of the diver should be entirely consistent. All that remains is the necessary education on environment specific factors.

We all know that the cave community wouldn't accept wreck qualifications for cave diving. But many cavers are a quick to assess themselves as proficient to enter wrecks. Why the gross disparity?

Some might reference inconsistent standards of wreck training as the reasons for it not having validity for cave. Doing that assumes that all cave training is at a globally consistent level of excellence. Yet, we all know that cave training is of a variable quality.

Wreck training can also vary significantly depending on the global region. Most Americans have a firm understanding of the Florida Cave versus NE Wrecker issue. They should not make an assumption that ALL wreck diving is approached in the same way.

Personally, I believe that wreck and caves present sufficiently different environmental challenges that justify specific training for each.

I've taken experienced cavers onto extensive wreck penetrations and, on some occasions, they weren't adequately prepared for those dives.

So, we can say that SOME cave divers are capable of transitioning their proficiencies into a different overhead environment, but others are not. The same applies in reverse; some technical wreck divers would be competent in caves, others wouldn't be.

Should one qualification be acceptable in a different environment without any thought or individual factors being considered? I don't believe so.

 

[TrimixToo]

So check out the first 3 minute of this video. You would unfailingly run line there?

That's not exactly what I had in mind when I wrote "hard overhead environment." And, no, I'm not going to attempt to define it precisely. However, the odds are that I'd be running a line anyway if there were any chance that I'd venture out of sight of the upline, or back to my staged deco bottles, or both, and I certainly wouldn't leave it behind to cross that space in the video.

 

[The Chairman]

By that rationale, the reverse should also apply equally. But that doesn't happen.

Not even close. The regimen and discipline to become a full cave diver is so far beyond any wreck diver class that this is simply laughable. It's like comparing the skill set and comprehension of a doctor to a guy who has just passed a first aid class, especially if you consider NSS-CDS training as the standard. Certainly, a number of agencies have screwed this distinction up, or at least they are trying to screw it up, but I would trust a full caver over anyone who had not earned that distinction in any environment.

 

[tursiops]

On the other hand, NOAA has actively molested wrecks like the monitor...even removing the bodies of sailors from the company of their shipmates...and did a piss poor job of preserving them/ “forgot” to follow through with the funding for preservation” , and now all the artifacts sit in a warehouse 5 miles away from me...I can’t see them. Nobody can.

What did your Congressman say when you asked him to make sure NOAA had the appropriation to preserve the Monitor artifacts?

 

[northernone]

I've taken experienced cavers onto extensive wreck penetrations and, on some occasions, they weren't adequately prepared for those dives.

In regards to the topic of the thread would you be willing to outline the details which showed their lack of preparedness for the dives you accompanied them on.

 

[tomfcrist]

Lol. My congressman is tired of watching NOAA spend tens of thousands of dollars making stupid sonar pictures of wrecks that are 1) not within their sanctuary...it’s a ploy to expand the sanctuary and further limit access to our resources...and 2) have been seen in person by tens of thousands of people over the years...and there are HD videos of on YouTube for free.

Besides that, they can’t even get a marine forecast right...even if they were forecasting the next 2 minutes.

NOAA is a joke. They are the epitome of “We are from the government, we are here to help”. They ruin everything they touch, and want you to thank them for it.

 

[tursiops]

Lol. My congressman is tired of watching NOAA spend tens of thousands of dollars making stupid sonar pictures of wrecks that are 1) not within their sanctuary...it’s a ploy to expand the sanctuary and further limit access to our resources...and 2) have been seen in person by tens of thousands of people over the years...and there are HD videos of on YouTube for free.

Besides that, they can’t even get a marine forecast right...even if they were forecasting the next 2 minutes.

NOAA is a joke. They are the epitome of “We are from the government, we are here to help”. They ruin everything they touch, and want you to thank them for it.

Wow. You have no idea how the system works, but are perfectly happy sitting there bitching about it. Your Congressman sounds no better, and I'll bet you happily vote for him. No wonder things aren't getting any better.

 

[sigxbill]

By that rationale, the reverse should also apply equally. But that doesn't happen.

Given equal skill proficiencies, the capabilities of the diver should be entirely consistent.

"Give equal skill proficiencies"? LOL! Assumption is the mother of all fxxx ups ....

 

[tomfcrist]

Wow. You have no idea how the system works, but are perfectly happy sitting there bitching about it. Your Congressman sounds no better, and I'll bet you happily vote for him. No wonder things aren't getting any better.

Ok, so educate me on the greatness of NOAA.