Do cave divers need wreck training?

[Marie13]

I’m a baby wreck diver (outside only so far). At the Great Lakes Shipwreck Festival in Ann Arbor last Saturday, veteran GL Shipwreck hunter David Trotter gave a presentation on the discovery of the whaleback Clifton in Lake Huron. Video of his team showed them laying line as they penetrated the wreck.

My SDI wreck class with limited penetration, partially on a santized Lake Michigan wreck (the Holly barge), had us laying line. I plan on practicing limited pen this season in the wide open cargo holds of a couple of Lake Michigan wrecks.

I don’t get the plunder mentality. I go for the experience, seeing history, and taking photos.

 

[covediver]

Seems the story of the Rouses in Bernie Chowdhury's book "The Last Dive" was the last word on cave divers becoming wreck divers. guess I was misinformed

 

[tomfcrist]

Seems the story of the Rouses in Bernie Chowdhury's book "The Last Dive" was the last word on cave divers becoming wreck divers. guess I was misinformed

That had nothing to do with diving discipline or training...being narced out of their minds caused their deaths. The collapse in the wreck would have happened regardless of training level....not being able to find their stages was directly narcosis related.

They knew better...they didn’t care enough to make the right decisions, they won their prize.

 

[sigxbill]

To the OP, I would say, "it depends." I think the correct answer is a combination of Cameron's and Capt Wyatt. I too think properly trained cave divers have all the skills necessary to do wreck penetrations. And I think Cameron covers the 'wreck diving specific hazards' Capt Wyatt refers to.

Many of those hazards are the same hazards technical divers train for: Rapidly changing conditions with current and surge, unpredictable surface return conditions (boat etc), loss of upline, anchor dragging, etc.

So since wrecks tend to be deep, I would suggest that many properly trained technical divers who are also cave divers already have the skills they need for most wrecks. Just add the warning: wrecks have "many more dangly entanglement hazards, more spiky pokey things, and Increased chance of collapse." (from Cameron)

"Both caves and wrecks vary greatly," so I am not making any absolute generalizations here either, and am far from being the absolute authority, but based on my experience in both environments, I would say that most technical cave divers are good to go in most wrecks. That being said, I think taking a proper course for the environment for which you wish to dive is always a good idea, and is often fun in a challenging way at the same time.

cheers

 

[TrimixToo]

Well, I've seem some very experienced wreck divers that had awful buoyancy skills, cared little for the environment, and thought laying a line was for wimps. Just sayin'.......there is a difference between the training and the reality of the culture.

Too many have died because they did not have a continuous guideline to the exit to follow out.

I was once being lost in silt a scant 10-15 feet from the exit for several minutes because "it wasn't that far away so I didn't need to run a line." I guessed right about the direction back so I could feel my way out (obviously!), and today I unfailingly run a line in any hard overhead environment. If there isn't time to transit something in both directions within thirds to recover the line, then I didn't bring enough gas to transit, and I turn the dive. The wreck isn't going anywhere. If I get out and up safely, I can go back later. If that makes me a wimp, I'm a wimp, but nothing in a wreck is worth dying for as far as I'm concerned.

 

[boulderjohn]

and today I unfailingly run a line in any hard overhead environment.

So check out the first 3 minute of this video. You would unfailingly run line there?

 

[KevinNM]

I don’t get the plunder mentality. I go for the experience, seeing history, and taking photos.

The argument is that salt water wrecks are actively decaying. They have a limited lifetime before they become a slight bump on the ocean floor. Having a porthole in your living room is not morally inferior to letting it get corroded away to nothing in the ocean.

Or so I've seen it argued.

 

[Mark IV]

The argument is that salt water wrecks are actively decaying. They have a limited lifetime before they become a slight bump on the ocean floor. Having a porthole in your living room is not morally inferior to letting it get corroded away to nothing in the ocean.

Or so I've seen it argued.

...and I would agree with this, too. The sanctimonious arguments for not salvaging parts from a wreck, are akin to forbidding someone from harvesting aluminum cans from the side of the road. With the possible exception of it being considered a military grave, a ship wreck is just so much junk littering the seafloor. If the naysayers want it's parts preserved for posterity so badly, then they need to go down and get them, and donate them to a museum or something. If they refuse to do that and still insist it must be left to rot into dust, then screw 'em, the ship's bells, portholes and liquor stash are fair game !!!

 

[Marie13]

I’m not a junk collector. I guess these people are.

 

[Bierstadt]

...and I would agree with this, too. The sanctimonious arguments for not salvaging parts from a wreck, are akin to forbidding someone from harvesting aluminum cans from the side of the road. With the possible exception of it being considered a military grave, a ship wreck is just so much junk littering the seafloor. If the naysayers want it's parts preserved for posterity so badly, then they need to go down and get them, and donate them to a museum or something. If they refuse to do that and still insist it must be left to rot into dust, then screw 'em, the ship's bells, portholes and liquor stash are fair game !!!

Because divers are so very interested in visiting junk littering the seafloor? Because that is all it is, junk? I do not have a final opinion on this issue as of yet, but I am quite sure the plundering community treats these wrecks with less respect than they deserve. As a Great Lakes diver I expect any wrecks below the ice line (30-40 feet) to last for a very long time, and regard any plunder of these wrecks as a sacrilege.