Do cave divers need wreck training?

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CAPTAIN SINBAD

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John Chatterton seems to think they do.

Wreck diving is not cave diving, it is wreck diving. Anyone who treats a wreck like a cave, simply does not understand shipwrecks. Cave diving techniques work great, in caves. It is as simple as, the two disciplines may have some similarities, but they are different especially when it comes to navigation.

Advanced Wreck Diving | Shadow Diver | John Chatterton

Yet there is a mindset that argues that Cave training is all you need to handle any and all wrecks and if you become a cave diver then you have surpassed the level of training that an "Advanced Wreck" course can offer.

Thoughts?
 
I agree. Caves are caves and wrecks are wrecks. However, I think the overall level of baseline training in the cave community exceeds that of the wreck community. This may or may not qualify a cave diver to dive on wrecks, but I feel safer doing a wreck dive as a cave diver, than I would if I were a wreck diver trying to dive caves.

I genuinely believe this is because of the standardized curriculum of training in cave diving. If the wreck community had a standardized training curriculum on the same level as the cave community, the comparison would be better defined. For example, I know exactly what is expected in a cave course from any agency. The minimum standards are well beyond what is expected of most recreational divers. I know that I would receive an excellent course of wreck training from John Chatterton, or DevonDiver, however I can't go to any random wreck instructor and get that same level of training like I could in a cave course. Of course there are always exceptions to both, but comparatively the general baseline level of training is much more consistent in the cave community.
 
There are hazards and contingency plans in wreck dive we don't have in a cave... I also came close to death using wreck diving protocol while caving.

I respect the experienced divers in both environments and appreciate the differences.

Instead of stirring up chest thumping arrogance, it's often helpful to take the learners approach when starting in a new environment.
 
Yet there is a mindset that argues that Cave training is all you need to handle any and all wrecks and if you become a cave diver then you have surpassed the level of training that an "Advanced Wreck" course can offer.
Who has this mindset?

Having taken both Advanced Wreck and Full Cave training, the latter is certainly more complete and more intense, yet in almost no way prepares me for any serious wreck diving. So I'd like to know who it is that has the mindset you refer to? I agree with the end of your statement ("if you become a cave diver then you have surpassed the level of training that an "Advanced Wreck" course can offer"), but strongly disagree that the higher level of training prepares you "to handle any and all wrecks."
 
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For the edification of those of us who are neither: like what?

I'll take a stab at this from what I've experienced (not making global generalizations as both caves and wrecks vary greatly...not to forget mine diving as well.)

Wrecks: many more dangly entanglement hazards. More spiky pokey things. Increased chance of collapse. Rapidly changing conditions with current and surge. Chemical hazards. Unpredictable surface return conditions (boat etc). Highly three dimensional navigation in a predictable pattern.

Cave: greater penetration distance. Less predictable construction patterns. Land access often.

Background: I have dozens not hundreds (or thousands) of wreck penetration dives and am in the hundreds for cave dives. Far from an authority, but maybe this gives a talking point to get the discussion going.

Regards,
Cameron
 
Wrecks: many more dangly entanglement hazards. More spiky pokey things. Increased chance of collapse. Rapidly changing conditions with current and surge. Chemical hazards. Unpredictable surface return conditions (boat etc). Highly three dimensional navigation in a predictable pattern.

Surely any cave course would still have covered these hazards though? What skills are covered in advanced Wreck that are not covered in a cave course?

Wreck diving is something that I'd like to get into but I was thinking that I'd be better off doing a cave course and then using those skills in wrecks. I feel like the risk of getting an instructor who is just there to tick a box outweighs the risk of encountering something in a wreck that I haven't been trained for in a cave. My thinking is mostly based on this article.
Thoughts?
 
Surely any cave course would still have covered these hazards though? What skills are covered in advanced Wreck that are not covered in a cave course?

Wreck diving is something that I'd like to get into but I was thinking that I'd be better off doing a cave course and then using those skills in wrecks. I feel like the risk of getting an instructor who is just there to tick a box outweighs the risk of encountering something in a wreck that I haven't been trained for in a cave. My thinking is mostly based on this article.
Thoughts?

I'm going to bow out.

I'd be interested in the answer myself, if it comes from an instructor who passionately teaches both wreck and cave diving and has been doing so for a few decades with integrity.

Mandatory course content can be different from reality.
 
I am not a caver , but I am a wreck diver /instructor the environments train different mindset some crossover im sure but .........I would be hard pressed to not train hard to do a wreck penetration like the empress of Ireland ......it came close to taking me out , john chatterton . IS the expert here , I think his words should suffice
 
A properly trained cave diver has all the skills needed to do wreck penetrations. The wreck diving specific hazards need to be covered for a cave diver conducting wreck dives.
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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