Diving without a C-Card?

[redacted]

Not quite! Do you really think there is a lot of $ to make in SELLING a tank? I think not! Not a whole lot in filling tanks with the station that we have set up and the monthly and quarterly service.

There is not much at all in an LDS that has a lot of profit involved. So the successful LDS needs to work for a large volume of satisfied customers. You don't do that by turning customers away unless your business is already so successful you don't want/need those customers. An LDS can legally sell gear, including tanks, to anyone. Good service would dictate that you learn enough about a customers needs and understand what they will be doing with that equipment. That process will tell you whether you are dealing with a certified diver, a paintballer, or some new diver's grandmother who wants to surprise her favorite grandson with about $3000 dollars woth of new gear. If you send the c-cardless paintballer and the grandmother to the store on the other side of town, the primary "safety" benefit is to your competitor.

I understand some stores execute waivers when they sell air to a paintballer. Is there a problem with that.

 

[LakeScubaDiver]

One time, before I was a "PADI DEEP DIVER" I went below 60ft and the Scuba Police stopped me and asked for my PADI Deep Diver Certification Card. Unfortunately I didn't have it and had to hover at 60 ft while all my friends kept going deeper. Luckily they found me on the way up and we completed the dive! Thank you Scuba Police!!!

 

[Walter]

Why not?

Because society has no compelling interest in this matter. Laws should never be made unless society has a compelling interest. We should have laws to protect us from others, but we should never have laws to protect us from ourselves.

 

[HowardE]

Because society has no compelling interest in this matter. Laws should never be made unless society has a compelling interest. We should have laws to protect us from others, but we should never have laws to protect us from ourselves.

As I said in a previous post. "I am not for having laws to protect me from myself"

A law requiring a C-Card for diving would (I assume) protect the dive shop further from unreasonable law suits. Obviously any idiot could just do a beach dive uncertified. Obviously, the police wouldn't start patrolling the waters to make sure a diver was carrying their card.

Also as Walter said, nothing will be done about this in a legal sense, since there is no compelling interest in this.

However, I know that every dive boat that I have been on has required all divers to show their C-Card, at least once. I don't think I would trust a shop that didn't accept this responsibility.

 

[Dragon2115]

It is up to people in this country to help make positive laws.

In Massachusetts the voters of the state voted by binding referrendum to abolish the seat belt law, twice. Both times the legislature reinstated it because of fears they would lose their federal highway funds.

The same voters voted for clean elections. The state SJC tried to force teh legislature to either fund or repeal the law as required by state law. Nothing happened.

The point is, that wouldn't a simple "C-Card Required" law be good?

On it's face, sure. But as we all know, the devil is in the details. Who's C-card is honored? What if the diver got their certification outside the U.S. like my wife and I did. There's no way for the government to know or certify that these places are teaching to U.S. government approved standards.

You (dennis) assume that it has to go further, that our govt doesn't know how to keep it simple.

He's absolutely correct, they don't. Take this example, the effectiveness of a session of Congress is measured by how many pieces of legislation it passed into law. Last time I checked it wasn't supposed to be a race.

Why would it HAVE TO go further than that?

Because politicians can't help themselves. It's what they do.

And my other question, as I am not a legal analyst, is wouldn't that relieve some burden from dive shops, with "all of the paperwork you have to fill out"

No, you would still be filling out all the same paperwork, except now one copy would be sent to some agency. Actually all that would change is that there would be one more agency for the blood sucker laywers to go after in the event of a lawsuit.

Believe me, I am all for freedom, if you knew what I did for a living, you'd agree, but the bottom line in my opinion, is that with the growth of SCUBA, it seems prudent to at least have minimum requirements (without adding any requirements to, or standardizing of the current certifications), this would help protect the sport itself from any idiot that wants to strap on a tank, and jump in the water.

You see, there you go using logic again. That will be your downfall when discussing the government. Try remember this, those that can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, manage. And those that can't do any of those go into politics. Most of the people that would be involved in writing your proposed laws are as dumb as a stump when it comes to diving and the dive industry.

 

[CBulla]

Personally, I consider the practice to be borderline suicide.

I dove like this a long time but in shallow (30' or less) waters.. I look back and think "scarey" but never considered it borderline suicide. The act of diving could technically be considered that given that we are knowingly entering a harsh environment upon our own free will.

And as far as getting the tanks filled, I've never been asked to show my C-Card, even when I get nitrox fills at an unfamiliar LDS. This is ridiculous, and MUST change.

Just my .02 psi.

I used to just use the fire dept... they were happy to give me more gas in the bottle. Now with the cert, the gas understanding is different and all the shopz I visit ask for a card.

 

[LakeScubaDiver]

[QUOTE

As far as buying a tank online though, sure you can do that without being certified, but god only hopes the dive shops are smart enough to be checking for c-cards before filling, otherwise I guess THEY would then be liable for giving a fill to someone NOT certified. [/QUOTE]


So is Honda liable for making my car, which I ram into another car?? People are responsible for their own actions...like Rosie O'Donnell suing a fork cause she's fat

 

[Walter]

As I said in a previous post. "I am not for having laws to protect me from myself"

A law requiring a C-Card for diving would (I assume) protect the dive shop further from unreasonable law suits.

Nope. Most divers filing suit have c-cards. A law requiring to have tem would not change this.

If that's your intention, push for a law that protects people from suits when the victim was at fault. If the boat leaves me on the reef or runs over me when I come up beside the flag, I think I should be able to sue if I so choose. If I get bent, or run out of air, that's my own fault and should not be allowed to sue the operator.

 

[Dragon2115]

Nope. Most divers filing suit have c-cards. A law requiring to have tem would not change this.

If that's your intention, push for a law that protects people from suits when the victim was at fault. If the boat leaves me on the reef or runs over me when I come up beside the flag, I think I should be able to sue if I so choose. If I get bent, or run out of air, that's my own fault and should not be allowed to sue the operator.

If it were only that simple. Imagine how much cheaper insurance would be.

 

[redacted]

If I get bent, or run out of air, that's my own fault and should not be allowed to sue the operator.

Suits are a legal way to seek remedy. I am not comfortable with categorically prohibiting them. Make the system more efficient. Restrict some of the rediculous judgements. Recognise individual responsibility in the judgement process and real damage in the awards process.

Otherwise folks may have no choice but to go for their guns again.