Diving instructors - low standards debate

[Esprise Me]

We had a thread recently on people's experiences (or lack thereof) with being asked to show their logbook: Does anyone ask to see your logbook?

 

[AnaCat]

Agreed. But the buddy must have something as he was allowed to take AOW wit @AnaCat if I read her post correctly.

Agreed. But the buddy must have something as he was allowed to take AOW wit @AnaCat if I read her post correctly.

Hi, he has ACUC - American Canadian Underwater Certification; there seem to be a lot of dive shops in Spain/ South America.
His card was checked by our PADI dive shop in June and everything was ok on paper.
In practice he did 4 dives and never received any learning materials. Some concepts were presented verbally but not all that is in the PADI manual.
Again, he did not know things that he never encountered in his own experience. Things he got to practice he does very well. Some that we identified while his daughter did her OW course, and practiced with our AOW instructor between dives.

 

[Marie13]

Never heard of ACUC. But again, he got certified in Cuba. I’m sure someone else might have some info on ACUC.

 

[Edward3c]

Ok, nerdy reply
PADI does not request but recommends diving logs. So it’s not an instruction, rather a best practice

At some point I will probably be very confident and know what weights I need depending on suit/ type of cylinder, fins etc. I will also know how I can best adjust for water temps. But since we‘re recreational divers and sometimes have long intervals in which we don’t dive I think this is a rather important tool we can use.

Now my question remains: if you don’t log your dives and don’t have them signed by the master diver/ instructor that accompanies us, then how can we prove to a LOA how many dives we have?
While all of them make test dives to see actual skill level, they also require proof that you have min 50 dives, and not by giving an declaration but actually seeing the logbook.
It was the case with the first 3 boats we contacted for request of offer for LOA this October.

thanks
Ana

I’ve only been asked for date and location of last dive by dive ops throughout the world.

 

[Searcaigh]

Never heard of ACUC. But again, he got certified in Cuba. I’m sure someone else might have some info on ACUC.

ACUC | Your International Dive Certification

acuc.es

 

[shurite7]

Sorry maybe my wording was a little unclear. Obviously yes for the actual OW training the dives need to be logged and records kept for liability reasons to show proof of actual training and all details associated with the dive. Sorry I'm not familiar with SSI standards but I see in the PADI Instructor manual (the one I have is pretty old so maybe there is something more up to date) it stats "Maintain training completion records for each student diver/participant for seven years or longer (as required locally)." and I'm sure like you said SSI and others agencies have a very similar standard so yes I agree there needs to be "record keeping" of the course dives but it is simply just that, record keeping. But I have not actually seen anything that states that teaching your student to log there "fun dives" after the course is a core standards/requirement for the OW training to certify them. To me it would seem the only reason why during a course dives are logged is just that to log the course dives for "record keeping" for liability reasons. I know IANTD requires them to be keep for 10 years now.

NAUI, PADI, and SDI require the dive shop/operator/instructor to maintain student records for a period of time. They also have a requirement in Standards that state students are to fill out a logbook for the certification dives they conducted and the instructor is to sign it. The instructor should go through the reasons for the logbook and how to fill it out.

With that being stated I have seen instructors ignore the standards by skipping the logbook.

 

[boulderjohn]

The diver learned through ACUC in Cuba. I don't know a lot about ACUC, but their standards are online at their website. I could not find a standard for logbooks, but I did not read it all that carefully.

According to Wikipedia, the primary source for academic learning is direct instruction from the instructor rather than the book-based home study or eLearning from some agencies. That instruction is supposed to be supplemented by teaching aids that include video. That would be consistent with what was said in this thread.

 

[Jcp2]

The diver learned through ACUC in Cuba. I don't know a lot about ACUC, but their standards are online at their website. I could not find a standard for logbooks, but I did not read it all that carefully.

According to Wikipedia, the primary source for academic learning is direct instruction from the instructor rather than the book-based home study or eLearning from some agencies. That instruction is supposed to be supplemented by teaching aids that include video. That would be consistent with what was said in this thread.

Media publication in Cuba likely more difficult than in most other places, so knowledge is passed Fahrenheit 451 style, in the oral tradition.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

They are a RSTC member (Europe): European Council - WRSTC

As for open water diver, log books are required equipment and the use of such is part of open water:

https://wrstc.com/downloads/03%20-%20Open%20Water%20Diver.pdf

So while I didn't look real hard for the ACUC standards, as they might be one of those agencies that doesn't publish their standards, based on the WRSTC requirements, I'd bet a dollar that log books/use of such are part of ACUC standards.

Now, please excuse me for not being shocked at the accusation of an instructor not following an WRSTC agency standards.

 

[boulderjohn]

Media publication in Cuba likely more difficult than in most other places, so knowledge is passed Fahrenheit 451 style, in the oral tradition.

I don't think it has anything to do with Cuba. As I read the description, instructor lecture is ACUC's standard method of instruction.