Diving instructors - low standards debate

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Marie13

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Many of us these days have dive computers that log dives. Even if you don’t bother to have a paper log, you have electronic proof of some dives. I haven’t logged on paper in a few years since I download dives and have a digital log on my phone.
 

boulderjohn

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Now my question remains: if you don’t log your dives and don’t have them signed by the master diver/ instructor that accompanies us, then how can we prove to a LOA how many dives we have?
While all of them make test dives to see actual skill level, they also require proof that you have min 50 dives, and not by giving an declaration but actually seeing the logbook.
The only time I have ever been asked for a logbook other than getting my professional certification was on a liveaboard about 20 years ago. They wanted to see it to help set up buddy teams. About half the people did not have one. No problem. Lots of people do not log dives, and they get by.

Lots of people do dives that do not include a divemaster or instructor, so no such signature is possible.

The signature of a buddy, divemaster, or instructor can be faked as easily as the rest of the logbook entry, so there is no such thing as proof of dives. The guy who bought my first computer got a computer log showing all kinds of great dives.
 

boulderjohn

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Your description of your friend's training sounds very much like a Discover Scuba class, which does not give certification. Does he have an actual certification card that you have seen? If so, what agency?
 

Marie13

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Your description of your friend's training sounds very much like a Discover Scuba class, which does not give certification. Does he have an actual certification card that you have seen? If so, what agency?

Agreed. But the buddy must have something as he was allowed to take AOW wit @AnaCat if I read her post correctly.
 
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AnaCat

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So, in 4 years of scuba, your best friend never saw you filling out your secret logbook? 🙄
The first time we dived together in June he saw.
Clarification: the friend I dived with in Barbados was not my buddy and best friend about who I was talking…
 

Searcaigh

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Many of us these days have dive computers that log dives

The problem with computers though is there is a finite number of dives / hours and may not log the dive number e.g. The Suunto computers I used in the past.

Shearwater allows you to set the dive number, but I'm not sure how many hours diving it retains.

I used to download my Suunto logged dives many years ago, but before that it was all paper. I've also changed PCs and lost my Suunto Logs, but thankfully have all my hard copy logs. I only have 599 dives on my Shearwater App on my phone, but I'm not sure if that is the same number of dives on my Mac as I advent checked and only started using the phone a couple of months ago.
 

Marie13

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The problem with computers though is there is a finite number of dives / hours and may not log the dive number e.g. The Suunto computers I used in the past.

Shearwater allows you to set the dive number, but I'm not sure how many hours diving it retains.

I used to download my Suunto logged dives many years ago, but before that it was all paper. I've also changed PCs and lost my Suunto Logs, but thankfully have all my hard copy logs. I only have 599 dives on my Shearwater App on my phone, but I'm not sure if that is the same number of dives on my Mac as I advent checked and only started using the phone a couple of months ago.

The dive computer log is some sort of proof of dives. My first computer, a Geo 2.0 held 25 dives.
 

mcohen1021

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I've had several operators ask "date of last dive" but never a log book. Several ops ask you to do a checkout dive if its been more than a year since your last dive.

If anyone wants to see my logbook, ill direct them to my YouTube channel 😁
 

boulderjohn

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I've had several operators ask "date of last dive" but never a log book. Several ops ask you to do a checkout dive if its been more than a year since your last dive.
Date of last dive is very common, and some operations, especially liveaboards, will require a checkout dive for anyone, regardless of the date of the last dive. I have had to do them fairly recently, and it would not surprise me to learn that I will have to do one next week on a liveaboard.

The liveaboard operator (Mike Ball) that Gabe and Tina Watson used in Australia years ago had a policy of requiring checkout dives, but they agreed to waive that requirement because Gabe told him his NASDS Rescue Diver certification was an adequate substitute. When Tina died on her first dive, Mike Ball was fined for failing to follow their own policy.
 

Jim Lapenta

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I used to keep a detailed log up until about 500 dives. Now I just note date, location, and a few other details that depend on the dive. I teach and require logging course dives because standards say to do so. However, I show students how I prefer to log dives and why but let them decide how they want to do it after the class. In the OW class they use the log provided in the materials but after that, if they want to just use a notebook it's fine with me. As for when I travel, I've never been asked for a logbook since I started showing my Instructor or Tech Instructor cards.
 
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