Diving, Fitness, Obesity and Personal Rights

[Bob DBF]

I have wondered on why the larger boats don't have a boom and winch that could haul someone out of the water in an emergency. I had a low tech hydraulic version for getting my mother in law in and out of the pool when she was restricted to a wheel chair. It was a lot easier and safer than having several people trying to assist her up the steps, and this was not on a pitching deck.

As for a "rescue worker" who wants pick and limit their clientele, should probably look into a new line of work.

Bob

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've heard of 400 lb men diving. Even though I can deadlift that amount, in an emergency,I'd rather tie a rope around them and tow them back to shore with EMS waiting!

In all seriousness, two members of any deck crew should be able to get a person out. While I never practiced it when I took my rescue diver class, I read in the book of the method where you put someone in a net, and you pull up one side, rolling them up and into the boat. I doubt many boats are equipped for that. They should if they take anyone.

Tie two ropes around cleats ... or a swim step. Lower the ropes below and around the unconscious diver. Pass the free ends up to two people on deck. They can hoist even the largest man on board that way.

The method is taught in the NAUI Rescue class ... the one you can take right after OW class if you're so inclined. Surely a DM must know the technique. If you don't, you can look it up ... it's called "parbuckling", and they even use it to raise sunken vessels out of the water ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The method is taught in the NAUI Rescue class ... the one you can take right after OW class if you're so inclined. Surely a DM must know the technique. If you don't, you can look it up ... it's called "parbuckling", and they even use it to raise sunken vessels out of the water ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Couldn't remember the exact name. I've read about it for both PADI and SSI's rescue diver courses, but never practiced it.

But Bob, would two single ropes be enough? I'd think a net of some sort without be better, as I would expect a person to fall out of two ropes.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Oh crap...a rescue net...another piece of safety gear I have to pack...geez...

I'm actually going to start asking this question whenever I'm on dive boats. How would they get a 400 lb diver, who let's say had a heart attack and needs immediate medical attention, out of the water?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Couldn't remember the exact name. I've read about it for both PADI and SSI's rescue diver courses, but never practiced it.

But Bob, would two single ropes be enough? I'd think a net of some sort without be better, as I would expect a person to fall out of two ropes.

You use what you've got on board, and one thing every boat has on board is docking lines ... a net, a tarp, or nylon straps would work better if you have them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dmaziuk]

Then perhaps that service industry is not for that particular DM. There are all kinds of jobs that are distasteful - when it gets to that point it is time to find a new profession or find a charter that only caters to pretty and handsome slender divers...

In think the point is that my right to weigh 400 lbs Trumps DM's right to not have L4/L5 disks squashed because she needs money and I'm the a**h**e that has it. Some people call that free market, I tend to call it things that get mod'ed out even when I'm being polite and restrained.

And trust me, "distasteful" is not the word that comes to mind when you slip a disk.

 

[TMHeimer]

In the recent posts I tend to agree with both Bobs on a lot. Perhaps if the boat op decides to take on a said number of divers of various different sizes and conditions, that op should have a plan to deal with whatever happens? A plan to deal with a situation where ALL of them get in trouble and need rescuing &/or medical help at the same time. I know that's in Fantasyland, but where do you draw the line on what the boat op (crew, etc.) should be required to do?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Realistically, Tom, you can't plan for everything. In legal terms it's a fuzzy standard of what a person can "reasonably" be expected to do. A circumstance where ALL of the divers get into trouble would generally fall into one of two categories ... either the boat put them in conditions that a reasonable person should not have been put into (in which case it's negligence), or it's a completely unforeseen circumstance that you couldn't have foreseen and prepared for (such as an unpredicted change in weather that completely changes conditions once it's too late to call the dive or leave the area ... i.e. "an act of God").

Much of tech diving training involves learning how to deal with unforeseen circumstances, or "emergencies". The typical standard there is to learn how to manage one, or at most, two simultaneous emergencies. More than that, you're going to have a really bad day ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

In think the point is that my right to weigh 400 lbs Trumps DM's right to not have L4/L5 disks squashed because she needs money and I'm the a**h**e that has it. Some people call that free market, I tend to call it things that get mod'ed out even when I'm being polite and restrained.

And trust me, "distasteful" is not the word that comes to mind when you slip a disk.

Well, if you're in a line of work that requires you to sometimes manage heavy objects ... whether they be people or inanimate objects ... then there are techniques and mechanical aids that should be made available to you to do so without hurting yourself. I've already described a couple of these techniques that you should have learned on your way to becoming a DM, and there are others that your employer should make available to you if it's their decision to provide services for this type of clientele. That's a business decision. Your "right" is to decide whether or not to be in this line of work, or to work for this particular employer. If you decide to accept the position, then it's your responsibility to provide the services that are paid for by the client your employer agreed to provide services for. You don't have the "right" to discriminate against certain types of clientele simply because you believe they should not be there. Nor do you have the "right" to insist on government intervention preventing those people from being provided those services. That's called discrimination, regardless of how you look at it.

Furthermore ... if you're the sort who thinks about your clients in terms of being an a**h**te simply because you don't like the way they look, then you're in the wrong line of work. Perhaps you'd be happier in the fashion industry.

What makes you better or somehow more deserving of this "right" you mention than an EMT or nurse who has to deal with heavy people on a daily basis? I can assure you those people put more time, effort and expense into getting into their line of work than you did as a divemaster ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Neilwood]

Realistically, Tom, you can't plan for everything. In legal terms it's a fuzzy standard of what a person can "reasonably" be expected to do. A circumstance where ALL of the divers get into trouble would generally fall into one of two categories ... either the boat put them in conditions that a reasonable person should not have been put into (in which case it's negligence), or it's a completely unforeseen circumstance that you couldn't have foreseen and prepared for (such as an unpredicted change in weather that completely changes conditions once it's too late to call the dive or leave the area ... i.e. "an act of God").

Much of tech diving training involves learning how to deal with unforeseen circumstances, or "emergencies". The typical standard there is to learn how to manage one, or at most, two simultaneous emergencies. More than that, you're going to have a really bad day ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Agreed.

From my knowledge as a lay person (not a lawyer), almost all "English law" based courts such as UK, USA, Canada, Aus etc only require a reasonable duty of care (i think the UK term is "as far as is reasonably practicable")..

Should an accident happen and it is followed up by an enquiry (an inquest in the event of a fatality, an HSE investigation or possibly both) the responsible party (the boat owner/captain/ dive officer) would have to show they took reasonable precautions to prevent it or mitigate it's effects if it was unpreventable. Most businesses (and even clubs) here are expected to perform risk assessments of any dangers and provide method statements of how to work round them if need be. If part of your activity is putting divers in the water, then I think it would be reasonable to have a plan in place for how to get them out of the water in the event of an accident/illness. With the "heavier"/larger" divers, it could be something as simple as the parbuckling technique above or a winch but the people involved should be aware of it and how to perform it.

As you suggest though it would be unreasonable to expect them to mitigate multiple emergencies as the person investigating has to look at it as "what reasonably practicable steps could have been taken" and not "if money and resources are unlimited"