Diving, Fitness, Obesity and Personal Rights

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Having a lift could raise liability risk substantially. The presence of the lift implies having a functional lift, capably implemented, is appropriate and passengers onboard have a reasonable expectation that this service exists on the boat, if needed.

If it's needed at some point, and either doesn't work (e.g.: glitch, lack of adequate maintenance, salt water corrosion) or crew didn't use it right (e.g.: rarely used), and a passenger has a bad outcome that an attorney convincingly argues might've been avoided if the lift had worked & been deployed properly, this could be worse for the dive op. than having none at all.

If you're not careful, having too extensive a set of boat policies & equipment lineup could raise the duty of care level you'd be held to.

Richard.

Great point. I think it would be nice if parbuckling wasn't just mentioned in rescue and divemaster courses, but actually practiced/mastered.

 

[KenGordon]

I don't think you understand what I mean by a lift. Google "diver lift" and look at the pictures.

Think of a platform at the back of the boat which can be lowered and raised and with handholds either side. When a diver needs to get into the boat it is lowered, they stand on it and it brings them to deck level where they shuffle to their bit of bench.

Here (UK) almost all boats other than RHIBs have them and they are how all the divers get out of the water on every dive.

Edit sorry, may translate to 'elevator' in your local dialect.

 

[Wookie]

Why don't you lot do something about having lifts?

Do the coastguard really get to say no? Surely a safety case can be made to counter that? Given the 'attitude' of most of the posters on here with regard to 'freedoms' surely the freedom to fit a lift is worth something?

Can someone post a regulation which stops them?

Or are all the skippers just too cheap?

The Coast guard does not say no, there are a couple of boats with lifts in the US, one in North Carolina. No, the reason is that the Coast Guard regards diver lifts as an elevator. That means it has to be designed as a lift capable of lifting people, which is only about a zillion times as expensive as building a UK style lift. And, of course, if we travel to another country, they get to inspect the design, too. There is no regulation stopping it. If you'd like to see the list regulating it, I have no problem digging them up.

So, yeah, I guess we're too cheap. A properly designed and certified lift would cost more than the rest of the boat. And if you are too weak to climb the ladder, should you really be diving?

I'm just asking.

 

[dmaziuk]

No, the reason is that the Coast Guard regards diver lifts as an elevator.

I expect a sufficiently talented lawyer can figure out the exact loophole required to get a 'raise-and-lower-able platform' classified as 'not an elevator'.

 

[Wookie]

I won't be spending any money on that lawyer. And likely he won't be able to classify it as not a man lift. He'd be going against both OSHA and the CG.

Hahahaha. As I read the regulations, you have to wear a life jacket at all times the man-lift is over the water.....

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

And if you are too weak to climb the ladder, should you really be diving?

I'm just asking.

To me at least, the issue is, what if you have a heavy customer who has a medical emergency, such as a cardiac arrest. Doesn't have to be obese. You could have a pro lineman that's well over 300 lbs. How do you get such a person back into the boat? I think parbuckling is the only universal solution, but all the rescue classes I've taken or observed (PADI, SSI, and SDI), no one has actually done this method. I think that it would be a good thing to be able to practice, as opposed to trying to do it the first time in the case of an actual emergency.

Here in the Puget Sound, all of the dive boats I've been on require someone to climb out on themselves. Some of them have back platforms where people could as a team pull a large person onto it. But not all. This is a topic that just has me thinking a fair bit. I have no idea what your boat is like, but from what I've seen and heard of you, if I'm in your neck of the woods, I'll be signing up for some dives.

 

[KenGordon]

That means it has to be designed as a lift capable of lifting people, which is only about a zillion times as expensive as building a UK style lift.

When you say people do you mean more than one person at a time? Clearly here they are used to lift people, normally one at a time. What would the difference be?

And if they insist on something over the top can't you lobby for something appropriate?

Everyone, nearly, CAN use a ladder but a lift is nicer and, when faced with a tired or injured diver, makes what would be a major problem much easer to deal with.

 

[KenGordon]

Hahahaha. As I read the regulations, you have to wear a life jacket at all times the man-lift is over the water.....

Is that while standing on it or just anywhere on the boat because of the open gate?

 

[Wookie]

In cold water, I would think a lift would be almost required. Doubles, drysuit, cold, much harder diving than here in Florida. That puts the diver much closer to their NDLs than a warm water Caribbean diver. The climb up the ladder (exercise) might be all that's required to tip him over.

So, there is no type approved manlift for outside of the boat, and an indoor one is probably not appropriate. The only ones I see are scissor lifts. In making a lift, to get it type approved would go something like this: Find a state board certified marine engineer who will take on the job. Design a manlift that doesn't have any pinch points, that doesn't move any faster than XXX, but moves at least as fast as YYY. You won't be able to use any lubricants if you operate in a sanctuary, or any environmentally sensitive area, so it will take lots and lots of plastic on plastic to keep it from binding. It has to be operable by the person in the lift, so I assume it would have to be hydraulically operated, as electric motors wouldn't last. Then you submit to the Coast Guard for approval. This will take 1-3 years, they move at their own speed. Then you have to build one. Then you have to come up with test criteria and test it. Installation is actually the cheap part.

I installed a hydraulically operated sliding door a few years back. It's between the engineroom and the compressor room. The door has maybe $1000 in aluminum and welding/machining, and the actuator system has maybe $3,000 more in control panel and hydraulic system. I paid a little over $30k for the door. It's really really nice.

 

[Wookie]

Is that while standing on it or just anywhere on the boat because of the open gate?

They don't expect a diver lift, so the worst interpretation would be that while on the lift and the lift is over the water (which is all the time) you have to wear a life jacket. I've made the case to the CG that a wetsuit with 15 lbs buoyancy is a type 2 PFD, and they bought it. The lifejacket comment was just to point out that the CG has a lot of stupid rules to comply with.