Diving, Fitness, Obesity and Personal Rights

[MXGratefulDiver]

I get paid vacations and I am paid well enough to afford to dive. My salary is paid from federal funds. So I am all for government taxes and labour regulations -- they're not perfect, to put it mildly, but they're the reason I'm here on SB talking about diving. When want to hear the flag pin and apple pie pseudo-libertarian BS instead, I'll turn off the computer and turn on the idiot box.

I get paid well for my job too ... but if I were for some reason unable to meet the demands of the position, I'd seek a different line of work. That's not "pseudo-libertarian" ... it gets to the core of what the free market is supposed to represent.

What YOU apparently want is for government to dictate what kind of customers you get to deal with. The free market has an answer for that too ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm all for personal rights and freedoms, but what about rights and freedoms of people that work in this industry to not get stressed by seeing you hurt or dead, and dealing with consequences.Yes, sh*t happens, but why is it OK to push limits with fitness/weight issues, but it is not OK to push limits with diving beyond your limits/training?
If I am at risk to be sued for not being able to get someone big out of water, should I put yours rights and freedoms to dive unfit over my right to dive without worries of being sued out of my life?
I know which one I'll choose.

There's already a solution to that problem ... establish boat policies that would eliminate those people as customers. If you don't want to provide services, surely your competitors will. No laws needed ... let the market sort it out.

As for your comment about me diving unfit ... you don't know me, have never dived with me, so perhaps you should put a check on your assumptions. It's less about fitness than it is about not wanting you ... or the government ... deciding how I should live my life.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rmssetc]

I'm all for personal rights and freedoms, but what about rights and freedoms of people that work in this industry to not get stressed by seeing you hurt or dead, and dealing with consequences.Yes, **** happens, but why is it OK to push limits with fitness/weight issues, but it is not OK to push limits with diving beyond your limits/training?
If I am at risk to be sued for not being able to get someone big out of water, should I put yours rights and freedoms to dive unfit over my right to dive without worries of being sued out of my life?
I know which one I'll choose.

Let me throw one more smelly chunk of offal into what seems to be an overflowing pot...

I'm all for personal rights and freedoms, and I believe that people should take personal responsibility.

I believe that people who choose to engage in risky activity should also take on a higher degree of personal responsibility, not just for themselves (though self-interest is a great motivation), but for others who do not have the luxury to engage in these recreational activities.

Everyone dives in a world where there are limited resources (emergency transportation, medical personnel, medical facilities, medical supplies, etc) -- some places have more development, and more resources, but there will always be limits.

By necessity, if those resources are occupied by one person (say, a diver who wasn't fit for the conditions and had a medical issue), then those resources aren't available for someone else.

I hope that people will consider that their decisions about fitness, risk management, etc. affect more than just themselves, more than just their caregivers, even if the the outcome for the individual is fine. If you have an incident, then resources -- boat fuel, O2, other people's time, etc. -- get consumed. The final result should be that everyone gets prompt, terrific, successful care, but it may be the case where providing aid to one person means it's not there for someone else.

Maybe that added personal responsibility means someone makes a choice about their health, or chooses not to do a particular dive, or drops an extra $5 into the collection jar for the local rescue squad, or donates blood, or whatever -- that's a personal choice, or maybe I could have spared all this typing by just using the word karma.

 

[admikar]

As for your comment about me diving unfit ... you don't know me, have never dived with me, so perhaps you should put a check on your assumptions. It's less about fitness than it is about not wanting you ... or the government ... deciding how I should live my life.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I was not talking about you personally, but like I said, I have a personal right to choose my dive buddy. Would I make a mistake? Maybe or in your case most likely. But it is my right and I ask to have that respected, just like you ask me to respect how you live your life.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... and that's all I ask for. I strongly support the right of any diver to decide not to dive with someone, based on any criteria. What I do not support would be laws or industry-wide regulations that determined, based on an arbitrary standard such as age or BMI, that someone was "unfit to dive". I personally know people half my age and many pounds lighter than me who I would not dive with, nor who I think should be diving at all. In many cases, it has more to do with their attitude toward diving than it does their physical specifications ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dmaziuk]

... and that's all I ask for. I strongly support the right of any diver to decide not to dive with someone, based on any criteria. What I do not support would be laws or industry-wide regulations that determined, based on an arbitrary standard s...

What about the right of a rescue worker to not rescue someone? Can a DM refuse to dive with someone who looks high risk and whom she physically can't get out of the water? Does she still get paid? If she's fired and there are no other jobs available for her?

All standards are arbitrary in some sense or another. But there's a difference between job safety regulations and "stop morons from marching off the cliff" regulations. I believe the former are necessary evil while the latter are evil.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

What about the right of a rescue worker to not rescue someone? Can a DM refuse to dive with someone who looks high risk and whom she physically can't get out of the water? Does she still get paid? If she's fired and there are no other jobs available for her?

All standards are arbitrary in some sense or another. But there's a difference between job safety regulations and "stop morons from marching off the cliff" regulations. I believe the former are necessary evil while the latter are evil.

If you are working for pay, you must be able to perform the duties for which you are being paid. If you're working for a company that allows extremely heavy, unfit people in the water, then I'd say you need to take it up with your employers ... or find another dive op that's more discerning about who they accept as clients.

It's a business decision ... both theirs and yours. I'm not inclined to want to allow government bureaucrats ... most likely people who don't even dive ... set the criteria for who should or shouldn't be allowed to simply to make your job more convenient. That should be handled between you and the people you work for.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

What about the right of a rescue worker to not rescue someone? Can a DM refuse to dive with someone who looks high risk and whom she physically can't get out of the water? Does she still get paid? If she's fired and there are no other jobs available for her?
All standards are arbitrary in some sense or another. But there's a difference between job safety regulations and "stop morons from marching off the cliff" regulations. I believe the former are necessary evil while the latter are evil.

Then perhaps that service industry is not for that particular DM. There are all kinds of jobs that are distasteful - when it gets to that point it is time to find a new profession or find a charter that only caters to pretty and handsome slender divers...

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

If you are working for pay, you must be able to perform the duties for which you are being paid. If you're working for a company that allows extremely heavy, unfit people in the water, then I'd say you need to take it up with your employers ...

I've heard of 400 lb men diving. Even though I can deadlift that amount, in an emergency,I'd rather tie a rope around them and tow them back to shore with EMS waiting!

In all seriousness, two members of any deck crew should be able to get a person out. While I never practiced it when I took my rescue diver class, I read in the book of the method where you put someone in a net, and you pull up one side, rolling them up and into the boat. I doubt many boats are equipped for that. They should if they take anyone.

 

[AdivingBel]

While I never practiced it when I took my rescue diver class, I read in the book of the method where you put someone in a net, and you pull up one side, rolling them up and into the boat.

Oh crap...a rescue net...another piece of safety gear I have to pack...geez...