Diver lost in 100' off Juno Beach, FL

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Unfortunately the TOS of this forum allow for the speculation and discussion of accidents and incidents in order to try to determine what might have happened and to learn from it. We might be learning from an "If this happened...." scenario since we do not always know exactly what happened, but the important thing is that we do learn. It is terrible that we have to lose any diver, especially one as nice as I understand Eve was (I was not fortunate enough to have ever met her myself). But this forum exists to try to educate other divers so we do not have other accidents. I would expect that everybody would rather it if these incidents did not happen but until that happens, we need to educate and learn through open but tasteful and respectful discussion to try to lessen the number of accidents and incidents.

Although this is not the condolences forum (there is a thread already dedicated to Eve), my deepest condolences to all that knew Eve.
 
ScubaSteve001:
Unfortunately the TOS of this forum allow for the speculation and discussion of accidents and incidents in order to try to determine what might have happened and to learn from it.

In my opinion, it's a very good thing that speculation and "what if" scenarios are allowed in this forum. We rarely discover what actually happened in these accidents. Speculation may save a life. Speculation is not about putting down someone who died. Speculation is about saving the rest of us from our future mistakes.
 
In my opinion, it's a very good thing that speculation and "what if" scenarios are allowed in this forum. We rarely discover what actually happened in these accidents. Speculation may save a life. Speculation is not about putting down someone who died. Speculation is about saving the rest of us from our future mistakes.


Sorry Walter but I was not clear in my meaning. It was "Unfortunate" that the user felt the thread was inappropriate. As I said later in my post, the "What if scenarios" help us all to learn. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
I'm very sorry for your loss.

What was the current speed when she was hanging above you and Quin? Why would she not stay in the pothole (and out of the current) in order to wait until the two of you were done with your tasks? Did she hang above you while you went into the earlier blow outs?

It just seems funny that she would choose to hang above you since the current is almost always strong there and hanging stationary above two divers who are tucked into a hole would require a lot of kicking normally.

Did you at any time compare pressure guages during the dive?

Also, one last question: You told us what your maximum depth was, but what was the average depth? Was the dive constrained to above 100 feet for the most part? This seems to be relevant since she was diving 32%.

I hope my questions don't sound critical; I have dove that area many times and I know that many people follow a very loose buddy system when doing the hunting-drifting-lobstering dives.

The current was not particularly hateful that day - surpisingly. I will say that Eve was in a hover - that is, not moving and holding her space. I've done that dive with that particular group of divers many times and know how bad the currents can be - accounting for the "loose buddy system" you referred to. Often all it takes to get seperated is for one person to stop. I can't say if it was 1 knot current vs 1.5 knots or .75 knots but I can say that I was able to swim back against the current that day. It was actually one of the most benign currents I've dove in that area.

Eve was not kicking/struggling to stay there. Having dove with Eve many times, this hover was a classic Eve pose. She would not have been able to hold the hover in the hateful currents that are often there. She had been in the blow out with us but moved up and out of the way. She had been taking pictures in the hole - and others along the way.

The vis and the sharks were the only wild cards that day. (Thankfully, the sharks had no part of this.) Once you got about 20-25 ft above the bottom the vis quickly deteriorated. With all the storm water run-off, the middle waters were very murky. It had been like that the week before when we were all diving in Boynton too.

The bottom where we were was 100 ft. so our average depth would have been about 85-90 ft between holes. If one of us saw something we wanted to check out, the other two of us would wait - yes, we were able to hold our positions in the current. Even using the more conservative ATA of 1.4, we were well within our safe MOD.

No, I never actually grabbed her gauge and looked at it. We did check our own and signal OK though. In this group, given not only the experience level, but also the familiararity of diving with each other, this would not have been a common practice for us. I do this, however, when diving with less expereinced divers that I'm not as familiar with.

In Caribediver's defense, for all of us that knew Eve well and/or were there that day, our emotions are more than a little raw. Some of the speculation has seemed a bit callous given how we are hurting. I appreciate that the intent of this forum is to prevent future accidents. I only added my post to try to disspell some of the speculation and misinformation that is circulating. Perhaps no one has speculated more than me (and certainly Quinn and the rest of us that were there) as to what "really" happened. The sad truth is that we may never really know. I still do the "if only" and "I should've" dance till I'm dizzy. I'm sure I'll second guess this for a long time to come. We all have to make peace in whatever way we can: accept that it was God's will, fate or just a horrible, stinking accident. I just wanted to convey that this was not a case of being careless, negligent or acting like "cowboys". It was a group of close friends and experienced divers enjoying a beautiful morning dive.

Our group has had an outpouring of support from many folks, some we know and some we hope to meet some day. Thanks to all of you.
 
It was not the use of Nitrox alone that I was referring to. It was the percentage of Nitrox used at a particular depth, and the possibility of task overloading with that depth and mix that I was alluding to. Dan answered your question better than I ever could have.


Thanks for the clarification.



I don't know what argument you're looking for, but, sorry, I don't get into them. I'm merely speculating, thinking out loud, about what COULD have happened, and mentioned upfront that that's all I was doing. I was not attempting to "educate" anyone in any way.

No argument wanted! That was not the purpose of my question, which, it seems, should have been more specific. Then we wouldn't have gone all over the place to clarify one point. Apologies on that.


Seadeuce
 
No argument wanted! That was not the purpose of my question, which, it seems, should have been more specific. Then we wouldn't have gone all over the place to clarify one point. Apologies on that.


Seadeuce

No problem. I'm Irish, too :wink:. I'm always coming out with things that are misconstrued when I meant to be asking a simple question or making a simple remark.
 
Scubagalpal and Caribediver, I'm sorry if anything said on this thread sounds callous, malicious, or mean-spirited. On the contrary, we mean no disrespect AT ALL towards Eve. No one knows, and probably never will, what really happened to her. Whether we knew her or not, when something happens to a diver it devastates all of us. Talking about what COULD have happened helps us all to rethink how we dive, what we can do to become better and safer divers, and to try to minimize other accidents from happening. It is in no way a reflection upon the deceased. Very rarely is there a good explanation for what happens when a good diver ends up being pulled from the waters for the last time. It stuns us all. We try to learn (not from perceived "mistakes" from the deceased diver.....we don't know if any were made....$h!t happens), but by speculating the scenerios that could have taken place. No one is trying to tarnish Eve's reputation as an excellent diver. We are only trying to learn. I hope you understand.

If I ever have an accident that ends up being my last dive, I hope all you guys rip apart everything that you can find out, and speculate on the rest. You have my permission.....not that you need it.....lol
 
What Jupitermermaid said...
 
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