diver dies off redondo beach (puget sound)

[Uncle Pug]

From the sticky post at the top of this forum:
(1) Events will be "scrubbed" of names. You may refer to articles or news releases already in the public domain, but the only name you may use in this forum is your own.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Good idea, who's a doctor on SB? Even better, is there a thread already started on Medical Conditions? If not, sounds like a good topic.

There's a whole forum for medical questions ... it's called Diving Medicine ...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DiveGolfSki]

There's a whole forum for medical questions ... it's called Diving Medicine ...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thanks for the link.

 

[Goose75]

I have to say from reading all of the posts and the original, I think everyone is taking a different direction with the thread. If it is for information or to rethink our own practices, then I think many of the unpopular and speculative posts have merit in the technical aspects. Even if the actual conditions of the incident vary from what is broadcasted, discussing the effects do help the rest of us think about our own experiences. If the purpose is to offer condolences, then I think the title should change to reflect.

 

[KrisB]

There was nothing unusual about the dive, 84 feet max, for 26 minutes. That’s when he signaled to his wife that he was going up. She continued on her safety stop for a minute, then came up and didn’t find him. She was directed her to his bubbles by someone on the surface, and she went back down after him (bubbles were small, almost like the fizz from soda). She brought him up to the surface and that’s when she started screaming. The weird thing is that his computer showed at the 27th minute, he popped to the surface, and then sank back down to 27 feet and was there for 2 minutes before she found him. Her computer confirmed her safety stop, surfacing, and bringing back up.

New possible analysis, in light of this information:

1. the dive was completed, he signaled it was time to end it
2. they ascended (albeit, not within contact range)
3. he surfaced first, failed to become positively bouyant, and suffered an attack of some sort (cardiac, pulmonary or otherwise), and sank back down
4. she surfaced and he wasn't there, proceeded to look for him
5. found him within 2 minutes of (3)
6. resurfaced and proceeded to pull him to safety.

Would this accident have been preventable with better buddy communication? Who knows -- it depends on what sort of attack happened in (3).

Would he have received treatment sooner with better buddy communication? I think that's an unequivocal yes.

Now, not to point blame here, but even if the only difference was 2-3 minutes, the statistics show that every second counts when it comes to the possibility of successfully reviving a patient. If it was a pulmonary attack, she would have been able to administer mouth-to-mouth resucitation even before making it to shore, decreasing that time frame even further.

Cheers,

 

[wedivebc]

New possible analysis, in light of this information:

1. the dive was completed, he signaled it was time to end it
2. they ascended (albeit, not within contact range)
3. he surfaced first, failed to become positively bouyant, and suffered an attack of some sort (cardiac, pulmonary or otherwise), and sank back down
4. she surfaced and he wasn't there, proceeded to look for him
5. found him within 2 minutes of (3)
6. resurfaced and proceeded to pull him to safety.

Would this accident have been preventable with better buddy communication? Who knows -- it depends on what sort of attack happened in (3).

Would he have received treatment sooner with better buddy communication? I think that's an unequivocal yes.

Now, not to point blame here, but even if the only difference was 2-3 minutes, the statistics show that every second counts when it comes to the possibility of successfully reviving a patient. If it was a pulmonary attack, she would have been able to administer mouth-to-mouth resucitation even before making it to shore, decreasing that time frame even further.

Cheers,

Shame you're not an instructor so you could read the thread in the instructor to instructor forum about in water rescusitation.
Have you ever done rescusitation on a diver real or simulated? It is at best a very difficult prospect and if the revival rate is low for land based CPR/AR it is even lower for in water AR. Many people are thinking getting the diver out of the water quickly is the best course of action and is exactly what the woman did. In my books this man's wife did everything humanly possible to save her husband.

 

[KrisB]

Shame you're not an instructor so you could read the thread in the instructor to instructor forum about in water rescusitation.
Have you ever done rescusitation on a diver real or simulated? It is at best a very difficult prospect and if the revival rate is low for land based CPR/AR it is even lower for in water AR. Many people are thinking getting the diver out of the water quickly is the best course of action and is exactly what the woman did. In my books this man's wife did everything humanly possible to save her husband.

While not on a diver, I have done simulated AR on a "victim" that was in the water. And I did it as an 8-year old. Yes, it's much more difficult than out of the water, but it is doable.

Additionally, as this was a diver-on-diver situation, both should be able to be independantly bouyant -- the situation I worked through was with both being swimmers and if I stopped treading water, we both sank.

While I have not been trained in CPR, I can't imagine it can be done in the water, at least not effectively. But AR can be... and with the strength/ability of an 8-year old.

 

[jbd]

While not on a diver, I have done simulated AR on a "victim" that was in the water. And I did it as an 8-year old. Yes, it's much more difficult than out of the water, but it is doable.

Can you describe the simulation procedure you used? There is a difference in handling a conscious person and a deceased person. Did you actually establish mouth to mouth contact? Here again there is a difference between real contact and simulated blowing on someones cheek.

While I have not been trained in CPR, I can't imagine it can be done in the water, at least not effectively. But AR can be... and with the strength/ability of an 8-year old.

I think this is an invalid assessment. Your premise is based on your experience as an 8 year old in, most probably, controlled conditions and environment without the reality of actually keeping someone alive.

 

[jbd]

Bottle Diver's recent post metioned "It’s common knowledge that he had cancer, but he also had a chemotherapy treatment that morning, for what it's worth.". Let me raise another topic. I know his doctors said that diving is good for "boost the oxygen in his lungs" :confused6 but I wonder about the effects of chemo THAT morning?

Chemotherapy is not always as hard on people as commonly percieved. Much improvement has been made in the medicines themselves as well as in other medicines to relieve the side effects. I've had some patients that didn't seem to be affected by chemo untila a day or two after the treatment was administered. The diver in this case may well have been someone who was tolerating the therapy quite well and felt it was reasonable to dive under the circumstances.

 

[KrisB]

Can you describe the simulation procedure you used? There is a difference in handling a conscious person and a deceased person. Did you actually establish mouth to mouth contact? Here again there is a difference between real contact and simulated blowing on someones cheek.


I think this is an invalid assessment. Your premise is based on your experience as an 8 year old in, most probably, controlled conditions and environment without the reality of actually keeping someone alive.

No mouth to mouth contact -- it was on a live person.

We had to complete the situation with both the instructor and classmates.

The situation began with a "non-responsive" individual lying face down in the water -- the procedure entailed turning them over, checking for vital signs, then beginning artificial respiration.

The practice had to be completed in both deep water (6') and shallow.

Again -- I didn't say it was easy... but it was doable for an 8 year-old.