Diver Death in Cayman

[deeper thoughts]

Has anyone forwarded this thread to the dive op. I will not go too deep into this but we as divers are responsible for our own safety and well being. If that little voice is talking we need to listen

 

[carriemak]

Sorry to hear of your loss.

IMO, I have always enjoyed diving the Cayman Islands and have not had any issues with any of the dive shops, including Divers Down.

 

[Thalassamania]

A news article 2 1/2 years ago predicted an increase in accidents in the Caymans:

"New instructors are not being properly trained, they come out here and are put straight to work because there are no experienced staff to teach them."

In the past dive centres took new staff through a comprehensive familiarisation programme during which they learned the dive sites and conducted guided dives under supervision.

One source stated, "Now they seem to arrive one day and be running the dive boat the next. This violates the basic principles of customer service and safety, it's an accident waiting to happen."
---
Then, one year ago the head of the Cayman watersports association, Stephen Broadbelt, lobbied to lower their government's standards to allow an abandoned boat while all divers and the DM are underwater. Broadbelt warned that if the abandoned-boat concept was not officially adopted, then operators would be required to hire less-qualified staff (from the Cay Compass):

"But those [operators] that are able to overcome this additional burden [cost of a top-side bubble-water] will need to cut corners by hiring less qualified or experienced staff, sacrifice in-water supervision and reduce the overall customer experience and safety."

I advised the Cayman Watersportsmans Assoc. back when it was formed concerning some biological questions. If memory serves (and this was NOT the area I was working on at the time) there was no serious objection to having a boat captain and a DM aboard.

No diver going to 346 ft is going to be able to get to the surface alive or unbent, from 346 ft on one tank. It is my feeling that he could not do it even on two tanks. Even on trimix it's iffy from that depth? Someone know for sure?

It has been done. Here is the notorious WAH WAH article from aquaCorps Magazine:

Oh boy, I was still hanging with you until this post. Yikes, you need to think about who you are responding to. The divers on this thread have experience over you in just about every way you want to look at it. Safety is the individual diver's responsibility first. You should never rely on someone else for this, not your buddy, not the DM. I respectfully suggest you review your Open Water Manual, your risk and liability statement you signed and the Padi Standard Safe Diving Practices Statement of Understanding which you should have signed as well (perhaps you can find these on the Padi site). It appears from your posts the DM's purpose was to guide (this is called Discover Local Diving in Padi Speak) unless the dive op "sold him" to you as an instructor (check your paper work). A DM has the ethical requirement to follow the same Padi Standard Safe Diving Practices Statement of Understanding as you however his "job" -if it was indeed a Discover Local Diving (I am quoting relevant tasks from the instructor manual) is to "provide an area overview and brief on local conditions, hazards and points of interest" "explain special procedures used in the local area or describe techniques divers may use on the dive" "after the dive debrief" and "have participants log the dive and sign their logbooks". I am not defending him/her but don't start with such remarks - you'll only discredit your position. Take a break ok? you deserve it, it was a ****ty week for you...and may I suggest to you to dive in Jamaica, which has a program (by law) that seems to support more of what you are looking for. You cannot dive there without a DM, they control your depth (you will not dive to 100ft unless you are AOW), they hover and watch from the side. It is conservative profiles. It is relaxed and enjoyable and you will be taken care of. Jamaica is the only place in the caribbean I know who has this "control" over the diver however. Others on this post may be able to suggest other locations. Do your research on a dive op well in advance before doing a dive with them, use this board for this purpose, it offers many resources.

The most disturbing part of this thread is the complete misunderstanding (with a great portion of new divers) our industry has in terms of what a DM's role is in diving. That is what the pro's need to be working on. :depressed:

With all due respect, if I buddy with diver, I exit the water with that diver. If I am an in-water DM for a group of divers, I exit the water with the same number of divers that I entered the water with. That is what I am trusted to do and, IMHO, that is my legal duty. And yes, part of what I am there to do is to possibly protect them from their own stupidity. I am very sorry for your loss.

 

[pilot fish]

Thanks thal, Wow, wow, that is amazing. Not for me thanyouverymuch

 

[fosterboxermom]

Thalassamania,

Thank you for your thoughts. I agree with you.

 

[pilot fish]

Does anyone see the first real bad blunder in this tragic event, the failure of dive shop to flag this diver as brand new and not conveying that fact to the DM, as the first step in this poor man's death?

 

[fosterboxermom]

Does anyone see the first real bad blunder in this tragic event, the failure of dive shop to flag this diver as brand new and not conveying that fact to the DM, as the first step in this poor man's death?

Yes, I do. And we told him over and over again on the boat but he was so busy ignoring us and gearing up our gear that it when in one ear and out the other. This didn't have to happen. I think he was thinking if he did all this stuff for us we would give him a good tip.

 

[DandyDon]

Got your point, but if that is the case then why did the DM say to us "I HAVE NEVER LOST A *********G DIVER BEFORE, if he was not responsible for us. He should have been calm and said well, it's not my fault, he left the group I am not accountable for everyone? Tell me that, please.

I do feel sorry for you, everyone else involved, including the poor DM. The unfortunately lost diver screwed up badly and paid dearly but he did it to himself. That the DM didn't think of the best words at a time of tragedy is understandable enough.

That pretty much puts the blame right where it belongs. On the victim.

Yep.

Actually no. This is a forum and in a forum there are discussions. None of us like hearing about diving deaths but we can not just make a snap decision about who to blame. To do so wouldn't teach us anything about how to avoid making the same mistakes. The only thing I can glean from this is the importance of communication. Things break down when assumptions are made.

Yeah, if you want a blog site where no one is allowed to comment, there are many free ones available on the net. You may not get many readers unless you present your case very differently than you have here, but you can. Here, we comment, hopefully for the good of all.

FBMom, you don't list your training certs or dive location experiences on your profile, but if you want to dive with babysitting DMs, your choices are limited. I've been fortunate to have dived here and there all around North America and some of the Caribbean, and I have survived some serious screw ups on my own, but babysitting DMs are not the norm. Just depends on where you go, whom you go with, and what terms - but it's rare. Was not the case for me in Puget Sound's San Juans, California, St.Lawrence, North Carolina, Exumas, Biminis, Roatan, Belize, etc - often not the case in the Florida Keys or Cozumel even, depending on the sites & Ops.

Where have you dived that you became so accustomed to babysitting DMs, please...?

One question, when he checked in to the dive shop, filled out all the forms, HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN RED FLAGED AS A NEWBIE, as in brand new, AND THAT FACT CONVEYED TO "DM". For this reason I hold the Dive shop mostly responsible. When you have a newbie, you do not take them to a 100 ft site, he had only a few dives post cert. Hello? Absent the first mistake, the Dive Shop, you don't have the second mistake, the DM, and you don't have the third, the diver going to 100 ft

Eh, PF - I know you dive Coz where they do tend to watch your closer, but most places look at your C-card and accept that you are certified. "When you leave the US, you leave the US. Questions?" Out the Caribbean, rules are only guidelines - suggestion. I did 100 ft on my third Resort Dive, then got certified. It wasn't right, but it happens.

Sorry the couple did not do their pre-trip research with us here on New Divers forum, but most don't bother. It's usually more of "Let's try scuba and see if we like it?" Luck is such a kind lady overall.

(post not reproduced here)

Regards,

TGSmith

Just wanted to say: Well Said!

I have read enough and now calling BS on this thread. I was willing to give some benefit of doubt to fosterboxermom as having PTS but at this point sorry you have lost all credibility with the above post.

I do wonder? Anyone know if narcosis can be established in a post mortem? I don't think so, but I don't know? And I am wondering about that 300+ ft dive computer log too...?

Has anyone forwarded this thread to the dive op. I will not go too deep into this but we as divers are responsible for our own safety and well being. If that little voice is talking we need to listen

Oh good idea, but I doubt the Operator would want to post here - while dealing with the real investigations there, and since it all sounds weak.

FBMom, I see that you are not open to correction. Best wishes...

 

[pilot fish]

Yes, I do. And we told him over and over again on the boat but he was so busy ignoring us and gearing up our gear that it when in one ear and out the other. This didn't have to happen. I think he was thinking if he did all this stuff for us we would give him a good tip.

Yeah, as I said in an earlier post, he was doing the Calypso Caribe boogy for tips and paid zero attention to the cert of onboard divers he was assinged to and safety.:depressed:

 

[carriemak]

I hope someone from Divers Down is able to comment on this incident.