Diver Death in Cayman

[redstrom]

Been to the Caymans two times. I've dived with Red Sail, Tortuga Divers(?) on the east end, and Divetech and I would say they are all first rate oufits. I found their vessels in great condition, staff being excellent and knowledgable, and safety standards to be more prudent than on some of the dive boats I've been on on the east coast.

No reason to bash an entire island and its dive industry because of a few accidents.

 

[fosterboxermom]

Oh boy, I was still hanging with you until this post. Yikes, you need to think about who you are responding to. The divers on this thread have experience over you in just about every way you want to look at it. Safety is the individual diver's responsibility first. You should never rely on someone else for this, not your buddy, not the DM. I respectfully suggest you review your Open Water Manual, your risk and liability statement you signed and the Padi Standard Safe Diving Practices Statement of Understanding which you should have signed as well (perhaps you can find these on the Padi site). It appears from your posts the DM's purpose was to guide (this is called Discover Local Diving in Padi Speak) unless the dive op "sold him" to you as an instructor (check your paper work). A DM has the ethical requirement to follow the same Padi Standard Safe Diving Practices Statement of Understanding as you however his "job" -if it was indeed a Discover Local Diving (I am quoting relevant tasks from the instructor manual) is to "provide an area overview and brief on local conditions, hazards and points of interest" "explain special procedures used in the local area or describe techniques divers may use on the dive" "after the dive debrief" and "have participants log the dive and sign their logbooks". I am not defending him/her but don't start with such remarks - you'll only discredit your position. Take a break ok? you deserve it, it was a ****ty week for you...and may I suggest to you to dive in Jamaica, which has a program (by law) that seems to support more of what you are looking for. You cannot dive there without a DM, they control your depth (you will not dive to 100ft unless you are AOW), they hover and watch from the side. It is conservative profiles. It is relaxed and enjoyable and you will be taken care of. Jamaica is the only place in the caribbean I know who has this "control" over the diver however. Others on this post may be able to suggest other locations. Do your research on a dive op well in advance before doing a dive with them, use this board for this purpose, it offers many resources.

The most disturbing part of this thread is the complete misunderstanding (with a great portion of new divers) our industry has in terms of what a DM's role is in diving. That is what the pro's need to be working on. :depressed:

Got your point, but if that is the case then why did the DM say to us "I HAVE NEVER LOST A *********G DIVER BEFORE, if he was not responsible for us. He should have been calm and said well, it's not my fault, he left the group I am not accountable for everyone? Tell me that, please.

 

[vshearer]

He wanted to say he had done it one time and he thought he was safe and the DM never told he was not or didn't have the training so the guy probably thought he was.

That pretty much puts the blame right where it belongs. On the victim.

 

[Seanpaul]

Got your point, but if that is the case then why did the DM say to us "I HAVE NEVER LOST A *********G DIVER BEFORE, if he was not responsible for us. He should have been calm and said well, it's not my fault, he left the group I am not accountable for everyone? Tell me that, please.

I can't explain that. It should not have happened. But responsibility is a big word and a big job - probably shared by many in this circumstance whether legally or morally. Please realize you may never get an answer to this question either. Death often never has an explanation. Try to get some counseling from your dive insurer (DAN?) ok? I mean that in the most sincere and warmest sense. I would need it if I were in your shoes. Take it easy and PM me if you feel you need to take some of this offline ok?

 

[Web Monkey]

Been to the Caymans two times. I've dived with Red Sail, Tortuga Divers(?) on the east end, and Divetech and I would say they are all first rate oufits. I found their vessels in great condition, staff being excellent and knowledgable, and safety standards to be more prudent than on some of the dive boats I've been on on the east coast.

No reason to bash an entire island and its dive industry because of a few accidents.

Yeah, it is. The DM should have known better, the diver should have known better and the dive op should have known better. They're all creations of a self-perpetuating time-compressed profit-driven certification process.

Had any one of them had their act together, the victim would be home with his family right now, talking about his incredible vacation.

If the dive op was had their act together, the first time an OW diver walked into the shop wanting to get their 100' #7 log book entry stamped, the DM would have had his butt kicked out the door and the rest of the staff would have received a really scary warning with the threat of immediate dismissal.

Terry

 

[fosterboxermom]

Been to the Caymans two times. I've dived with Red Sail, Tortuga Divers(?) on the east end, and Divetech and I would say they are all first rate oufits. I found their vessels in great condition, staff being excellent and knowledgable, and safety standards to be more prudent than on some of the dive boats I've been on on the east coast.

No reason to bash an entire island and its dive industry because of a few accidents.

A few accidents!!! Oh well a few people have died there are a little over 6 billion people on this planet we can afford to lose a few fellow diver's!! NICE!! Glad you are so compassionate. Good for you.

 

[mikemill]

This is a blog

Actually no. This is a forum and in a forum there are discussions. None of us like hearing about diving deaths but we can not just make a snap decision about who to blame. To do so wouldn't teach us anything about how to avoid making the same mistakes. The only thing I can glean from this is the importance of communication. Things break down when assumptions are made.

 

[pilot fish]

One question, when he checked in to the dive shop, filled out all the forms, HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN RED FLAGED AS A NEWBIE, as in brand new, AND THAT FACT CONVEYED TO "DM". For this reason I hold the Dive shop mostly responsible. When you have a newbie, you do not take them to a 100 ft site, he had only a few dives post cert. Hello? Absent the first mistake, the Dive Shop, you don't have the second mistake, the DM, and you don't have the third, the diver going to 100 ft

 

[fosterboxermom]

One question, when he checked in to the dive shop, filled out all the forms, HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN RED FLAGED AS A NEWBIE, as in brand new, AND THAT FACT CONVEYED TO "DM". For this reason I hold the Dive shop mostly responsible. When you have a newbie, you do not take them to a 100 ft site, he had only a few dives post cert. Hello? Absent the first mistake, the Dive Shop, you don't have the second mistake, the DM, and you don't have the third, the diver going to 100 ft

My sediments exactly! Thank you!!

 

[TheScubaBOB]

A few accidents!!! Oh well a few people have died there are a little over 6 billion people on this planet we can afford to lose a few fellow diver's!! NICE!! Glad you are so compassionate. Good for you.

9 deaths in 12 months at a location which probably sees tens of thousands duing that time period is statistically irrelevant.

OTOH, 1 death in a decade amoungst a groups of friends is absolutely devastating.

What happened was tragic and traumatizing to everyone involved. In the aftermath of these things we always seem to find comfort in laying blame.

There were several points in the timeline leading up to this loss than 1 person doing the right thing could've prevented the whole episode.

1) Shop noting he was only OW Cert and prohibiting him on a 100ft plan.

2) DM limiting the dive to 60ft because 2 of the divers wouldn't go deeper than 60ft.

3) OP convincing the friend that he can always go to 100ft after he has logged a few more dives.

4) Diver remembering the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS SAFETY that is part of PADI Training and deciding to dive within the limitations of his training.

A lot of assumptions are made, the DM knew he was missing & continued the dive. Remember the DM also knew he had at least 2 divers who chose not to dive with the main group. What if he though the man was staying with his friend & fiancee? In that case he never would have know the diver was missing. Maybe the underwater exchange was him asking you if the guy was missing and he thought you knew but were okay (as if you knew he had surfaced solo or something).

As someone lese said, the 3 sides of the story: Your's, Their's and the truth lying somewhere in between.

Half of my 10 dive in the Philippines were with an instructor as my buddy (was taking AOW) so he was specifically my personal buddy. The other half I was part of a group with 1 or 2 DMs accompanying. We always had a buddy and the DM was a tour guide.

At any point if I wasn't comfortable I was ready to call the dive for myself. In fact I discussed my high SAC witht he staff and together we agreed to jump me up to a larger tank. As a diver I'm active in planning my dives.

When I hit the beach in Subic Bay I only had 8 logged dives but still I understood I was the responsible for my safety.