Diver Death in Cayman

[GaryLee]

First tell me why a OWI which is two levels above a DM took a new diver to that depth? Isn't that the real question?

no, it's not
this isn't about the certification of the dive guide.
you found out his certification after this sad incident.

He could have been a local fisherman that knew the sites and didn't even get in the water.

this is about a 58 year old man that had decided prior to the dive (your words) that he was going to dive beyond his experience and certification (from whatever organisation that is) and was allowed to do so because there is no governing organisation that would stop this.

Now, he is DEAD.
What do we as Dive professionals do to ensure it doesn't happen again?

 

[fosterboxermom]

Nice
So now you cant take other people replying to your posts when you are wrong
and you are wrong.
not because I say so but because it isn't fact.
If you would like to call PADI to quantify this, PM me and I'll give you the number and name post haste

GaryLee,

I am sorry for not behaving as I promised and not giving this board the attention it deserves. I am not here to get into any spitting matches (for lack of a better term ) but to learn and to help others understand what I went through and what we can do to prevent this from happening again. So my apologies go out to everyone that had to read my last post that were less than professional and juvenile. Thank you.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You don't think I have those names and numbers. I have them on speed dial my friend. You are just trying to defend an organization that pumps out students without the proper training. Put them on conveyor belts. Give them a computer and do it online. That will teach them Hey, I'll bet next PADI will have CD's you can listen to while you sleep and you will be certified in a couple of nights.

I needed that before going to bed!

 

[Thalassamania]

No Point to this post at all

Everyone else sees the point, but then none are more blind than those who refuse to see.

 

[Eddie Kish]

All that distance and expense to the Caymans for 22 minute dives? No thank you. I'll go elsewhere.

I should clarify. If you are on a guided dive, with someone in the group who is not on a computer, a typical profile would be about 20 min. My tables show 100ft for 20, don't yours??

I have always been given the option to dive my computer and stay longer after the DM has brought us back to the line.

I hope that helps.

 

[GaryLee]

You don't think I have those names and numbers. I have them on speed dial my friend. You are just trying to defend an organization that pumps out students without the proper training. Put them on conveyor belts. Give them a computer and do it online. That will teach them Hey, I'll bet next PADI will have CD's you can listen to while you sleep and you will be certified in a couple of nights.

cool, this has what relivance on the thread?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

no, it's not
this isn't about the certification of the dive guide.
you found out his certification after this sad incident.

He could have been a local fisherman that knew the sites and didn't even get in the water.

this is about a 58 year old man that had decided prior to the dive (your words) that he was going to dive beyond his experience and certification (from whatever organisation that is) and was allowed to do so because there is no governing organisation that would stop this.

Now, he is DEAD.
What do we as Dive professionals do to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Stop teaching weekend courses that fly through everything and only result in poorly prepped divers doing these kinds of dives. Make sure that students know that this sport is safe ONLY as long as you follow the rules and recommendations. Don't do that and it WILL KILL YOU VERY QUICKLY! They need to understand also that this IS NOT for everybody. Deny certs if students do not show proper respect for what they are now undertaking. Make sure that if they cannot maintain buoyancy and trim and are completely familiar with how their gear functions that they do not get a card.

If they need to have a DM out of training when conditions are equal to or better than what they trained in- No Card! Make sure they know that when DM's , Dive Guides, or Instructors take them beyond their training unless actually conducting a class that they are to not only refuse the dive but report said individuals to their respective agencies. Only when enough complaints come in will they start to take action because lots of complaints means lots of bad press which means lots of MONEY lost. Maybe then we'll see these incidents become fewer and farther between. They also need to start holding irresponsible instructors responsible for their actions by asking some of the questions I've posed in my article and the questions Walter recommends asking a potential instructor.

 

[pilot fish]

yep, it's 2 am now and I am up at 5am
no sleep for me tonight
Damn it"

As we said in Brooklyn, BS!

 

[pilot fish]

I should clarify. If you are on a guided dive, with someone in the group who is not on a computer, a typical profile would be about 20 min. My tables show 100ft for 20, don't yours??

I have always been given the option to dive my computer and stay longer after the DM has brought us back to the line.

I hope that helps.

You said, most dives in Cayman are 22 minutes, Those are your words. Hope that helps?

most wall dives in Cayman are planned for about 22 minutes. eddie kish.

 

[GaryLee]

You don't think I have those names and numbers. I have them on speed dial my friend. You are just trying to defend an organization that pumps out students without the proper training. Put them on conveyor belts. Give them a computer and do it online. That will teach them Hey, I'll bet next PADI will have CD's you can listen to while you sleep and you will be certified in a couple of nights.

No problem,
Now you've told me you feel you were "pumped out without proper training"
would you like to back it up with your cert card number, any will do so PADI can look into this. Please accept this post as an official confirmation that you are not happy with the training you have recieved and a report will be passed to PADI once your cert number has been received.
Trust me, you are doing the dive industry and PADI a great service by coming forward like this.