Diver Death in Cayman

[bsee65]

You don't think I have those names and numbers. I have them on speed dial my friend. You are just trying to defend an organization that pumps out students without the proper training. Put them on conveyor belts. Give them a computer and do it online. That will teach them Hey, I'll bet next PADI will have CD's you can listen to while you sleep and you will be certified in a couple of nights.

While I generally agree with you, the responsibility has to also fall on the instructors. It seems there are still instructors out there with an old-school mentality who will go beyond the basic requirements of the syllabus to mold safer and more capable divers. It's not just PADI, but a different subset of instructors and operations who share responsibility for inadequately trained divers walking around with cards. Reading the posts around here, one would think that the bad organizations outnumber the good ones, but that wouldn't be a fair assessment to make based upon just board complaints.

 

[Eddie Kish]

You said, most dives in Cayman are 22 minutes, Those are your words. Hope that helps?

Is there a reason to be snippy?

I was trying to add some insight to the type of diving being done in the unfortunate incident. The dive profile that was most likely followed on the dive in question was what I stated. Without hitting the wall and using a computer you could plan any dive profile you wanted. Typically that is not the reason most people want to dive in the Cayman Islands, they usually want to do wall diving.

There is no reason to become aggressive. We probably agree that the divemaster took divers beyond their experience on this dive and someone died.

 

[bsee65]

no, it's not
this isn't about the certification of the dive guide.
you found out his certification after this sad incident.

He could have been a local fisherman that knew the sites and didn't even get in the water.

this is about a 58 year old man that had decided prior to the dive (your words) that he was going to dive beyond his experience and certification (from whatever organisation that is) and was allowed to do so because there is no governing organisation that would stop this.

Now, he is DEAD.
What do we as Dive professionals do to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Not the most compassionate post, but I will use it to make a point. This isn't just about "dive professionals". Professionals certainly have the ability to prevent more accidents by interacting with more divers, but it's also about divers learning how to avoid becoming an accident victim themselves. A large piece of this puzzle involves the erroneous belief some divers have regarding what level of service the "dive professionals" provide.

 

[Blackwood]

Make sure they know that when DM's , Dive Guides, or Instructors take them beyond their training unless actually conducting a class that they are to not only refuse the dive but report said individuals to their respective agencies.

I disagree. If there is a mutual understanding that the professional is assuming a role of supervision, it matters little whether it is in the context of a class or not. It's the experience that counts, not whether you're paying for a card at the end of it.

 

[fosterboxermom]

No problem,
Now you've told me you feel you were "pumped out without proper training"
would you like to back it up with your cert card number, any will do so PADI can look into this. Please accept this post as an official confirmation that you are not happy with the training you have recieved and a report will be passed to PADI once your cert number has been received.
Trust me, you are doing the dive industry and PADI a great service by coming forward like this.

I was certified 20 years ago before PADI became what it is today. And what I have learned it is today. I won't do anymore classes with them knowing what I know now. And I wouldn't give you my number but I am sure one of your buddies at the dive shop you are representing can get it for you.

 

[GaryLee]

Stop teaching weekend courses that fly through everything and only result in poorly prepped divers doing these kinds of dives. Make sure that students know that this sport is safe ONLY as long as you follow the rules and recommendations. Don't do that and it WILL KILL YOU VERY QUICKLY! They need to understand also that this IS NOT for everybody. Deny certs if students do not show proper respect for what they are now undertaking. Make sure that if they cannot maintain buoyancy and trim and are completely familiar with how their gear functions that they do not get a card.

If they need to have a DM out of training when conditions are equal to or better than what they trained in- No Card! Make sure they know that when DM's , Dive Guides, or Instructors take them beyond their training unless actually conducting a class that they are to not only refuse the dive but report said individuals to their respective agencies. Only when enough complaints come in will they start to take action because lots of complaints means lots of bad press which means lots of MONEY lost. Maybe then we'll see these incidents become fewer and farther between. They also need to start holding irresponsible instructors responsible for their actions by asking some of the questions I've posed in my article and the questions Walter recommends asking a potential instructor.

Cool and SEI will do the same?
Having said that, can you tell me anywhere where an SEI Instructor or Divemaster is working and can influence the situation. Youv'e been going for what 5 months?

I know SEI can complete an Open Water course in two weekends (Just as PADI do) and you do a minimum 32 hours compared to PADI's recommended 31. how much more does a student learn on that extra hour?

Scratch that. It's a petty Jab

Now JimLap, I like that you are conciencious and there are a couple of extra courses that SEI have introduced that I would more than happily adopt. Cant think of them now but I did read all of your literature. I actually mean it. SEI have added into the courses after Open Water some pretty decent intermediate courses.
so we can lobby to change the recreational Scuba Councils minimum standards. I believe one of the founders of SEI used to be on the board? you want to sit down and discuss?

 

[GaryLee]

I was certified 20 years ago before PADI became what it is today. And what I have learned it is today. I won't do anymore classes with them knowing what I know now. And I wouldn't give you my number but I am sure one of your buddies at the dive shop you are representing can get it for you.

I'm not representing anyone but I will unofficially at this time stand up for PADI.
Now they have been going for 43 years so PADI was well established when you recieved your certification.
That said, other organisations were about prior to PADI and for some time
I accept you don't want to give your OW or AOW Number and that you are unhappy with your training so hopefully your details are on file so that PADI can contact you directly to see how they can help.
All the best

 

[fosterboxermom]

I'm not representing anyone but I will unofficially at this time stand up for PADI.
Now they have been going for 43 years so PADI was well established when you recieved your certification.
That said, other organisations were about prior to PADI and for some time
I accept you don't want to give your OW or AOW Number and that you are unhappy with your training so hopefully your details are on file so that PADI can contact you directly to see how they can help.
All the best

Thank you for your concern but if I need PADI's help I have their numbers and I will contact them myself. Again thank you for your concern. I will however continue my diving education as I see comfortable for me in the future.

 

[Blackwood]

She's fairly clearly stating that she's unhappy with what PADI has become, not with the training she received 20 years ago.

 

[Blackwood]

I feel that I was pumped out and that my initial instruction was inadequate to produce a competent, independent diver.

I'm more that willing to post my cert number assuming I can find the card. But what's the point?