DIR- Generic Diver attitude! Be careful, experienced divers...

[Edward3c]

A few years ago I was on a dive boat sitting next to a guy with an utter abomination of a dive kit configuration. Kind of a twinset/doubles but with a hard 7 litre (55cf??) stage bolted to the side of the twinset -- looked like one of those Cousteau-style triple cylinder backmount rigs from the 50s/60s. To this he had a "slob-knob" remote manifold lead, and three recreational style regulator sets with console gauges. Regs, guages, crap everywhere.

It was utterly hideous. Seriously, WTF!

I said nothing, but jumped in before him and had a wonderful 2 hour solo deco dive to 41m/135ft as I had a twinset with 21/23 backgas plus two stages with 50% and 80%. Heard boats topside.

When I surfaced there were two lifeboats and a helicopter -- for a moment I thought my boat had sunk! Back on the boat I soon learned that he'd died.


So, for the people who've posted above, what should I have done?
1) Screamed and shouted at him for such a piss-poor ridiculous abomination of that rig?
2) Kept my council and done nothing?


This has somewhat haunted me ever since. It was absolutely and utterly his responsibility to bring the right kit, the right experience and the right training with him. If he needed a buddy, he should have brought one.

Was it my responsibility, along with the other 10 experienced independent divers on that boat to harangue that diver?

You were not buddied with him. Do you know if the cause of death was related to his configuration? If if wasn’t speaking out wouldn’t have changed the outcome.

 

[lexvil]

A few years ago I was on a dive boat sitting next to a guy with an utter abomination of a dive kit configuration. Kind of a twinset/doubles but with a hard 7 litre (55cf??) stage bolted to the side of the twinset -- looked like one of those Cousteau-style triple cylinder backmount rigs from the 50s/60s. To this he had a "slob-knob" remote manifold lead, and three recreational style regulator sets with console gauges. Regs, guages, crap everywhere.

It was utterly hideous. Seriously, WTF!

I said nothing, but jumped in before him and had a wonderful 2 hour solo deco dive to 41m/135ft as I had a twinset with 21/23 backgas plus two stages with 50% and 80%. Heard boats topside.

When I surfaced there were two lifeboats and a helicopter -- for a moment I thought my boat had sunk! Back on the boat I soon learned that he'd died.


So, for the people who've posted above, what should I have done?
1) Screamed and shouted at him for such a piss-poor ridiculous abomination of that rig?
2) Kept my council and done nothing?


This has somewhat haunted me ever since. It was absolutely and utterly his responsibility to bring the right kit, the right experience and the right training with him. If he needed a buddy, he should have brought one.

Was it my responsibility, along with the other 10 experienced independent divers on that boat to harangue that diver?

How did the rig contribute to his death?

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

Should have slid your mask to your forehead and waited…

 

[Wibble]

How did the rig contribute to his death?

It's hard to say things out in the open, especially expressing an opinion on exactly what happened as I was in the water at the time and only have the information other people on the boat told me at the time and subsequently.

However, I think that the rig and "operator error" did for him.


The thing about people in the DIR longhose rig is it's a system that everyone -- mostly everyone -- knows and uses. The OP's thing with OW novices never having seen a longhose; but all of the more experienced (longhose) divers know how it works and practice handling the hose, shutdowns, kitting up processes, pre-dive sequences (S-drill), etc., etc.

I can only speculate that this person did not have those skills; had not practised extensively with the kit; had not practised all the shutdown drills; and probably didn't do a thorough pre-dive check.

The body has never been recovered AFAIAA.

Should have slid your mask to your forehead and waited…

My (mild) guilt is I got out of there ASAP as I had paid for a dive, wanted a dive, and didn't want to dive with someone else -- especially someone with kit like that.


I keep wondering what I would do now if presented with the same circumstances. Part of me would like to think that I'd make a stand and seriously question the person's experience and understanding of their kit and procedures.

Reality is what has it got to do with me?!? I've no duty of care, neither has the boat skipper. I'm just a diver on a taxi out to a wreck.

 

[Nick_Radov]

A few years ago I was on a dive boat sitting next to a guy with an utter abomination of a dive kit configuration. Kind of a twinset/doubles but with a hard 7 litre (55cf??) stage bolted to the side of the twinset -- looked like one of those Cousteau-style triple cylinder backmount rigs from the 50s/60s. To this he had a "slob-knob" remote manifold lead, and three recreational style regulator sets with console gauges. Regs, guages, crap everywhere.

It was utterly hideous. Seriously, WTF!

I said nothing, but jumped in before him and had a wonderful 2 hour solo deco dive to 41m/135ft as I had a twinset with 21/23 backgas plus two stages with 50% and 80%. Heard boats topside.

When I surfaced there were two lifeboats and a helicopter -- for a moment I thought my boat had sunk! Back on the boat I soon learned that he'd died.


So, for the people who've posted above, what should I have done?
1) Screamed and shouted at him for such a piss-poor ridiculous abomination of that rig?
2) Kept my council and done nothing?


This has somewhat haunted me ever since. It was absolutely and utterly his responsibility to bring the right kit, the right experience and the right training with him. If he needed a buddy, he should have brought one.

Was it my responsibility, along with the other 10 experienced independent divers on that boat to harangue that diver?

I'm sorry you had to go through that experience.

Rather than directly answering your question I will point to DIR Rule #1: don't dive with _______ (fill in the blank). At least for tech boat dives, get together with your buddies or dive club members and charter the whole boat. That way you can avoid contact with unsafe divers by requiring everyone to follow standards for training, procedures, and equipment. I understand that this can be expensive and logistically challenging in some areas but it beats getting involved in a fatal incident.

Some divers are going to make bad choices and kill themselves, and that's terrible. But you don't have to put yourself in the line of fire when it happens.

 

[admikar]

It's hard to say things out in the open, especially expressing an opinion on exactly what happened as I was in the water at the time and only have the information other people on the boat told me at the time and subsequently.

However, I think that the rig and "operator error" did for him.


The thing about people in the DIR longhose rig is it's a system that everyone -- mostly everyone -- knows and uses. The OP's thing with OW novices never having seen a longhose; but all of the more experienced (longhose) divers know how it works and practice handling the hose, shutdowns, kitting up processes, pre-dive sequences (S-drill), etc., etc.

I can only speculate that this person did not have those skills; had not practised extensively with the kit; had not practised all the shutdown drills; and probably didn't do a thorough pre-dive check.

The body has never been recovered AFAIAA.




My (mild) guilt is I got out of there ASAP as I had paid for a dive, wanted a dive, and didn't want to dive with someone else -- especially someone with kit like that.


I keep wondering what I would do now if presented with the same circumstances. Part of me would like to think that I'd make a stand and seriously question the person's experience and understanding of their kit and procedures.

Reality is what has it got to do with me?!? I've no duty of care, neither has the boat skipper. I'm just a diver on a taxi out to a wreck.

Look at the other side of the coin. What would happen if you spoke out and he ignored, so you went your own way? Would people start pointing fingers at you for not being more persistent and you find yourself on the hook in court? Do you need that kind of stress in your life?

 

[Celt]

The body has never been recovered AFAIAA.

So how did the rig contribute to his death. We regularly clamped a 7ltr of deco gas inverter between two 12ltr twins. Never used a long hose or octopus. What else was he doing wrong. Never judge a book by its cover.

 

[Nick_Radov]

So how did the rig contribute to his death. We regularly clamped a 7ltr of deco gas inverter between two 12ltr twins. Never used a long hose or octopus. What else was he doing wrong. Never judge a book by its cover.

Just because you got away with a certain practice doesn't mean it was safe or at all a good idea. Safe switching to deco stages requires visual confirmation of the tank label (among other steps). Failure to do so led to many tech diving fatalities, as briefly summarized in this article.

Twenty-five Years in the Pursuit of Excellence – The Evolution and Future of GUE

Founder and president Jarrod Jablonski describes his more than a quarter of a century long quest to promote excellence in technical diving.

gue.com

 

[MB NZ]

Reality is what has it got to do with me?!? I've no duty of care, neither has the boat skipper. I'm just a diver on a taxi out to a wreck.

This.

 

[Celt]

Just because you got away with a certain practice doesn't mean it was safe or at all a good idea. Safe switching to deco stages requires visual confirmation of the tank label (among other steps). Failure to do so led to many tech diving fatalities, as briefly summarized in this article.

Twenty-five Years in the Pursuit of Excellence – The Evolution and Future of GUE

Founder and president Jarrod Jablonski describes his more than a quarter of a century long quest to promote excellence in technical diving.

gue.com

Put back your hand the deco tank is inverted how could you mistake that, there’s always more than one way to do something. Run your hand along the hose. Some are trained to work in poor vis .