DIR- Generic Diver attitude! Be careful, experienced divers...

[Wibble]

So how did the rig contribute to his death. We regularly clamped a 7ltr of deco gas inverter between two 12ltr twins. Never used a long hose or octopus. What else was he doing wrong. Never judge a book by its cover.

Appreciate your angle. It was a mess of regulators, consoles and stuff — wasn’t a single piece harness. The stage was bolted to the twinset with the valve upwards. I didn’t see it being worn as I jumped early to make space and had planned a 2h solo dive.

As with every dive, my process — and one hopes everyone here — is to run strict checks validating gas, valves, breathing all regulators, gauges, wing, drysuit, etc., etc. Complicated and 'novel' kit configuration will hamper these checks and underwater procedures.

 

[Manatee Diver]

This has somewhat haunted me ever since. It was absolutely and utterly his responsibility to bring the right kit, the right experience and the right training with him. If he needed a buddy, he should have brought one.

Was it my responsibility, along with the other 10 experienced independent divers on that boat to harangue that diver?

This came up early enough in my cave training.

I was starting my Apprentice Cave course the same day that Daisy died. I saw them in the dive shop and normally I chat people up, and if I did I might have been able to tell them that Manatee's exit was undiveable as was reading about the previous day on my instructor's website. But I didn't because I was a newbie.

That brought me to the realization that I am responsible for just myself and my team. I might mention things that are off on an otherwise squared away person, but if someone is a complete soup sandwich I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole.

 

[LI-er]

You were not buddied with him. Do you know if the cause of death was related to his configuration? If if wasn’t speaking out wouldn’t have changed the outcome.

Even if the cause of death was related to his rig, speaking out would have done what exactly? He would have been like most ScubaBoard members during a debate here, and he would have taken the criticism well, seen the error of his ways and replied "Oh, you're totally right, hold on a few minutes while I completely change my gear configuration to something more suitable, I'll be splashing momentarily, don't wait for me"

I don't think so

 

[Celt]

Appreciate your angle. It was a mess of regulators, consoles and stuff — wasn’t a single piece harness. The stage was bolted to the twinset with the valve upwards. I didn’t see it being worn as I jumped early to make space and had planned a 2h solo dive.

As with every dive, my process — and one hopes everyone here — is to run strict checks validating gas, valves, breathing all regulators, gauges, wing, drysuit, etc., etc. Complicated and 'novel' kit configuration will hamper these checks and underwater procedures.

If a diver is familiar and competent with a rig and sets it up to suit themselves that’s the best way for them. A console puts depth, contents and time in one place, the rig has nothing to do with how you do checks. A one piece harness may not suit everyone and a quick release shoulder buckle does. Because it looks novel to you doesn’t mean the user isn’t perfectly happy with it.

 

[jborg]

If a diver is familiar and competent with a rig and sets it up to suit themselves that’s the best way for them. A console puts depth, contents and time in one place, the rig has nothing to do with how you do checks. A one piece harness may not suit everyone and a quick release shoulder buckle does. Because it looks novel to you doesn’t mean the user isn’t perfectly happy with it.

Are you saying there's no real qualitative difference between different kinds of rig setup; six second stages spread over three individual backmounted tanks is just as good and safe as a regular twinset-longhose setup, as long as the diver considers themself comfortable with their setup?

If not, and we agree there are some things that are objectively better than others, where do we draw the line? If three individual rec setups on my back is fine, is it OK to dive with 25 spare airs in a net bag? At what point can I safely say "my dude, you should not be diving that"?

 

[Celt]

Are you saying there's no real qualitative difference between different kinds of rig setup; six second stages spread over three individual backmounted tanks is just as good and safe as a regular twinset-longhose setup, as long as the diver considers themself comfortable with their setup?

If not, and we agree there are some things that are objectively better than others, where do we draw the line? If three individual rec setups on my back is fine, is it OK to dive with 25 spare airs in a net bag? At what point can I safely say "my dude, you should not be diving that"?

I think I actually addressed all the points you’ve made in the post you quoted, there’s as many differences in rig setup as there are people. If a particular setup doesn’t suit you, use what does. Who said there was six seconds spread over three individual tanks. “a twinset/doubles but with a hard 7 litre (55cf??) stage bolted to the side of the twinset -- “ in other words a 7ltr stage carried with a twinset, that’s what I read.

 

[jborg]

I think I actually addressed all the points you’ve made in the post you quoted, there’s as many differences in rig setup as there are people. If a particular setup doesn’t suit you, use what does. Who said there was six seconds spread over three individual tanks. “a twinset/doubles but with a hard 7 litre (55cf??) stage bolted to the side of the twinset -- “ in other words a 7ltr stage carried with a twinset, that’s what I read.

Wibble said "three recreational style regulator sets with console gauges", which I interpret as three first stages, each with one primary, one octo ("recreational style"), and a console.

However, I don't think you answered the question. Any setup is good, as long as the one diving it is happy? Nothing is objectively bad or dangerous?

 

[Celt]

Wibble said "three recreational style regulator sets with console gauges", which I interpret as three first stages, each with one primary, one octo ("recreational style"), and a console.

However, I don't think you answered the question. Any setup is good, as long as the one diving it is happy? Nothing is objectively bad or dangerous?

Please reread what I said (If a diver is familiar and competent with a rig and sets it up to suit themselves that’s the best way for them.) A twinset and stage will carry three first stages as standard.

 

[jborg]

Please reread what I said (If a diver is familiar and competent with a rig and sets it up to suit themselves that’s the best way for them.)

I read that. You're saying there's nothing objectively right or wrong beyond what someone decides for themselves. I think that's incorrect; I mean, looking beyond the horizon of diving for just a second, that's why we have laws, social norms, and a civilisation in general.

 

[Wibble]

Please reread what I said (If a diver is familiar and competent with a rig and sets it up to suit themselves that’s the best way for them.) A twinset and stage will carry three first stages as standard.

The rig I mentioned above had at least 5 second stages as a couple of recreational reg sets with consoles had been attached to the twinset. I think the 'deco' stage had a recreational set with one reg and a SPG.

The great thing about the longhose or sidemount configuration is that there's only two regs from the primary sources: you know which side you're breathing from (one's necklaced, the other isn't); you know where the valves are to do shutdowns.