Divemasters/Resorts making you flood and clear?

[friscuba]

Personally, I tend to agree with the OP. If a DM wants to check how my dive skills are, he/she can make first dive at an easy site. The DM will be able to tell fairly quickly which divers might be problematic...you know, the divers that look like they're dog paddling underwater, obiviously having to constantly play with their inflator, etc. I always thought that's how DMs know who to keep an extra eye on.

....So, let's say you are a DM working in Roatan or some other dive location and you are on a little boat with 6-8 divers and basically responsible for every person on that boat. It's the first dive and you haven't done any checkout because you don't want to offend anyone....

You are at a spot with a deep drift... everyone into the water. One person drops like a rock and starts drifting off to the blue, his buddy chases down after him, three start their descent but hang under the boat, one rolls off and has a panic attack while another has ear troubles and resurfaces. You are dealing with the frist two, and while you are doing it one of the group of three resurfaces because one of the two up top is their buddy, now they are having problems getting back down... meanwhile the first two yahoos who've never been there are nowhere in sight and the rest of the group has yet to even leave the boat.....


Or... you could keep everone together for 10-15 minutes on the first dive, practice a few short skills, get a handle on everyone's comfort level (not to mention the fact that by merely doing this you are probably lessening or eliminating the problems the first two divers who were at the surface were having) and then go dive.

If the first dive of every day has to be easy because there's a new diver on the boat, you're going to lose out in the long run.

There's a lot that goes on in the course of trying to put together a successful dive outing. I happen to work where skill check outs on dives are not commonly practiced, but I can see the position that a few minutes up front can relieve a LOT of potential problems.

The way I look at it, it's sort of when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Anyone who is offended by the practices the dive operators do doesn't need to hook up with them. If a company only offers guided dives, follow the guide or don't dive with the company. If the company requires skill check outs on the first dive, you do have the option to not dive with them. Apparently in some parts of the world it is common practice, there's got to be a reason.

later,

 

[LavaSurfer]

I am jumping in way down stream here but so what.
When I did a dive at AKR, I was asked to do a checkout before I could dive with the group. At first I was put off, who do they think they are but then I thought about it. they know nothing about me and its in their best interest to see what I know.

I did the skills and after about two he gave ,me and OK and stopped there.
He just wanted to make sure I had a clue. Good to know they care about their clients,

 

[friscuba]

Call me a skeptic ... but I'd like to see it too ...

When did the USCG get into the business of regulating the scuba industry?

Why would they mandate such a thing in Hawaii, but not in the other states?

:huh:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This is to Thalssomania also... There's a thread on this on the Ohana board. The Coast guard got themselves involved in a case last year on Oahu, and turned a case where all standards were upheld into a 1.5 million buck settlement for the family.

I doubt there's an actual regulation out there, but the reality is that once the Coast Guard steps in on a court case and says diver deaths are caused by too little supervision (in this case 8 divers to one guide/instructor) a can of worms is opened.

Later,

 

[Thalassamania]

....So, let's say you are a DM working in Roatan or some other dive location and you are on a little boat with 6-8 divers and basically responsible for every person on that boat. It's the first dive and you haven't done any checkout because you don't want to offend anyone....

You are at a spot with a deep drift... everyone into the water. One person drops like a rock and starts drifting off to the blue, his buddy chases down after him, three start their descent but hang under the boat, one rolls off and has a panic attack while another has ear troubles and resurfaces. You are dealing with the frist two, and while you are doing it one of the group of three resurfaces because one of the two up top is their buddy, now they are having problems getting back down... meanwhile the first two yahoos who've never been there are nowhere in sight and the rest of the group has yet to even leave the boat.....


Or... you could keep everone together for 10-15 minutes on the first dive, practice a few short skills, get a handle on everyone's comfort level (not to mention the fact that by merely doing this you are probably lessening or eliminating the problems the first two divers who were at the surface were having) and then go dive.

If the first dive of every day has to be easy because there's a new diver on the boat, you're going to lose out in the long run.

There's a lot that goes on in the course of trying to put together a successful dive outing. I happen to work where skill check outs on dives are not commonly practiced, but I can see the position that a few minutes up front can relieve a LOT of potential problems.

You’ve obviously been there and done that.

The way I look at it, it's sort of when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Anyone who is offended by the practices the dive operators do doesn't need to hook up with them. If a company only offers guided dives, follow the guide or don't dive with the company. If the company requires skill check outs on the first dive, you do have the option to not dive with them. Apparently in some parts of the world it is common practice, there's got to be a reason.

For me the issues is the lack of skill, insight and expertise on the part of the DM who is doing the checking. And it’s not their fault, there’s no place for them to learn that, it’s not in the curriculum and there are very few instructors who have the insight to move in the direction of the checkout I described in the link in my earlier post. So we are left, typical of today’s circumstances, with the unqualified examining the incompetent in a vain attempt to avoid the unimaginable. That sucks.

 

[fairybasslet]

....So, let's say you are a DM working in Roatan or some other dive location and you are on a little boat with 6-8 divers and basically responsible for every person on that boat. It's the first dive and you haven't done any checkout because you don't want to offend anyone....

You are at a spot with a deep drift... everyone into the water. One person drops like a rock and starts drifting off to the blue, his buddy chases down after him,

I don't know how accurate this scenario is. I mean, there are usually more than 8 people on the boat.

But seriously, the DM gives a briefing and everyone jumps in before him. During the briefing, he/she tells you where to meet up with him. You generally follow him if like Bob says, you want to see the cool stuff, or you do your own thing. Sometimes I had trouble clearing and everyone was down and off and I'm still hanging there. But divers don't generally go off on their own and leave the DM in the backscatter.

 

[jd950]

....So, let's say you are a DM working in Roatan or some other dive location and you are on a little boat with 6-8 divers and basically responsible for every person on that boat. It's the first dive and you haven't done any checkout because you don't want to offend anyone....

(Or the dive op doesn't want to incur the cost of a free checkout dive first)

You are at a spot with a deep drift... everyone into the water. One person drops like a rock and starts drifting off to the blue, his buddy chases down after him, three start their descent but hang under the boat, one rolls off and has a panic attack while another has ear troubles and resurfaces. You are dealing with the frist two, and while you are doing it one of the group of three resurfaces because one of the two up top is their buddy, now they are having problems getting back down... meanwhile the first two yahoos who've never been there are nowhere in sight and the rest of the group has yet to even leave the boat.....

Good point, had they been made to flood and clear their masks and do fin pivots first, at least you would know the two drifting towards the mainland can clear their masks and hover while enroute, and they would have had to pay for at least one dive before disappearing.

 

[Thalassamania]

at least you would know the two drifting towards the mainland can clear their masks and hover while enroute, and they would have had to pay for at least one dive before disappearing.

 

[Steve50]

that is great JD

 

[friscuba]

(Or the dive op doesn't want to incur the cost of a free checkout dive first)



Good point, had they been made to flood and clear their masks and do fin pivots first, at least you would know the two drifting towards the mainland can clear their masks and hover while enroute, and they would have had to pay for at least one dive before disappearing.

Plain fact of the matter is that everyone would end up in the same spot at the same time, any start of the dive issues would have been taken care of.

Most of the time there are no real troubles.... but when troubles happen it can happen in spades. I see the skills the ops you've been dealing with have been doing as an effort to nip trouble in the bud BEFORE it happens. Just becasue you may be competant doesn't mean the next guy is, and he can ruin the dive for you and everyone else. Why not go with the flow for 10 minutes? That's all.

 

[Thalassamania]

Why not go with the flow for 10 minutes? That's all.

Glad to, with an examiner who is not wasting my time (and in most of your cases money).