Divemasters/Resorts making you flood and clear?

[fisherdvm]

friscuba:
Heck, I'm still having trouble descending at the beginning of a dive and not being too buoyant at the end of a dive. I mentioned in my first post that developing and practicing skills was a good idea and should be done...but questioned the significance of those particular skill tests at issue and their timing.

I think that you've posted the exact reason why there should be a predive check. FYI, it is good to find out if the tanks you're diving with are aluminum or steel. My rough memory suggests that 80 cu ft of air weight about 6 lbs.

When you do your check out dive, and get neutrally buoyant at the surface with a full tank, you should add about 6 pounds of lead to assure that you do not have positive buoyancy when your tank is low (300 psi) for safety reasons. Ideally, you should surface with at least 500 psi, but if you are pushing your NDL (and even if you are well within the NDL), it might be better to slowly ascend and to do a maximum safety stop... and that is the only reason why you might want to be sure you can hover at 15 ft with a tank less than 500 psi.

You should log your weight used, protection used, and tank type in your log book. The next time you switch from one configuration to another, it helps to know how much weight to use. Unfortunately, switching from an steel tank to an aluminum one will require the use of more weight - 3 to 5 lbs - depending on the tank. Steel ones are negatively buoyant at the beginning of the dives and at the end, while aluminum ones are positive at the end of the dive.

There are 2 threads - how to ascend, and how to descend - you might want to read this.

 

[fisherdvm]

friscuba:
I thought having a certain certification created a presumption of competence at that level. I see now that I was mistaken, both because some (many?) think the certification requirements are too lax and because of people becoming "rusty" through inactivity. I fwish being certified meant more than it apparently does but I guess that's the way it is, and I can certainly understand how inactivity could make one rusty.

I am surprised of your presumption. You did admit that you are an attorney, and said that you do specialize in an area that is not litigation. But you do understand enough of litigations not to ask questions like these - I would expect.

I have a DVM and a license to practice animal medicine, but I don't do it, because I am incompetent and out of practice for nearly two decades.

I have an MD and trained in family medicine, but I don't practice it either, because I am also incompetent and out of practice for nearly a decade.

A license to practice does not equal competence - as many of you have very critically pointed to my lack of knowledge of medicine in general... and it it good to understand that - and not to follow the advice of Fisher.

 

[Thalassamania]

sorry for being a bit nit-picky... HIRSA does indeed have 19-20 dive operator members (including most of the bigger ops) currently, and several that seem to rotate in and out from time to time. Non-member operators seem to be invited to most of their meetings as well, as I get a lot of invites to participate, just haven't joined yet. HOST is up front about who is involved right on their home page, more of a citizen,/government group than dive operators. I've never heard of SORMA, but that doesn't mean they, or another similarly acronymed organization, doesn't exist.

The HIRSA website, under

Diving Related Business Members does not list a single operator. A PM has pointed out to me that if you click on the island names you get the operators, of which there are 19. I stand corrected.

I don't know any of the people at Seasport Divers, but a lot of people, out west anyway, refer to most of the California schools as Cal State whatever. University of California Santa Cruz does offer a Marine Biology degree, albeit a BS rather than a BA, but it appears the Captain didn't write his personal bio, could be an understandable error.[/quote]Cal State and the University of California are two entirely different systems, of radically different quality and status. No one who attended either would confuse them. I am from “out west” and I’ve never heard that mistake made.

UCSC offers a BS in Marine Biology not a BA as you indicate. If you had a degree would you forget where it was from and what kind of degree it was? If you had crewed this up and had it pointed out to you would you not have corrected it?

 

[fisherdvm]

Not to be critical, Thal, but many colleges offers BA in the sciences, not all are BS. Some school do not have a program in marine biology, but a college might let you get a degree in their college, and take classes or independent study in your field of choice, which might be - marine biology. The BA might allow for a broader based program with more liberal art or flexibility in obtaining a teaching certificate.
Some school have competing colleges offering the same degree, but granting different titles.

I would not knock a person down with a BA in biology, with a focus in marine biology. If they said their degree is in marine biology - their transcript might actually back them up.

 

[Walter]

I have no objections to taking anyone's check out dive prior to diving on my own. I do strongly object to booking with an operator that allows unlimited beach diving and not being allowed unlimited beach diving because they don't feel like administrering the check out dive. I almost had that problem in Bonaire when I stayed at the Plaza, but we were able to negotiate a check out dive for our group later in the afternoon than is customary. What was totally whacked was the check out dive was supervised from the beach. It wasn't a check out dive. We all just went diving, no one from the resort bothered to get wet.

 

[tedtim]

I have no objections to taking anyone's check out dive prior to diving on my own. I do strongly object to booking with an operator that allows unlimited beach diving and not being allowed unlimited beach diving because they don't feel like administrering the check out dive. I almost had that problem in Bonaire when I stayed at the Plaza, but we were able to negotiate a check out dive for our group later in the afternoon than is customary. What was totally whacked was the check out dive was supervised from the beach. It wasn't a check out dive. We all just went diving, no one from the resort bothered to get wet.

We had the same kind of experience in Bonaire. The "check out dive" was more of a required briefing on the island, how to get your tanks, and then off we went on our own. It was more a formal means of collecting the fee for the dive tag that you have to wear. We did see one pair of divers enter the water with an instructor or DM, but I don't know if they asked for that or were doing a referral.

 

[Thalassamania]

Not to be critical, Thal, but many colleges offers BA in the sciences, not all are BS. Some school do not have a program in marine biology, but a college might let you get a degree in their college, and take classes or independent study in your field of choice, which might be - marine biology. The BA might allow for a broader based program with more liberal art or flexibility in obtaining a teaching certificate.
Some school have competing colleges offering the same degree, but granting different titles.

I would not knock a person down with a BA in biology, with a focus in marine biology. If they said their degree is in marine biology - their transcript might actually back them up.

Yes, but I am intimately aware of the offerings at UCSC. The point is not just the prestige of a BS vs. a BA or the difference is between Cal State and the University of California, but rather, since the chap neither knows his degree or his Alma Mater, has he a degree at all?

 

[Blackwood]

At the Bay Island Beach resort we had to do a partial flood/clear. Reg recovery and a fin pivot.

Since I did the clear and recovery in mid-water, I got to skip the fin pivot. LOL

I was going to make a comment about a resort encouraging divers to touch bottom. It's good that they allowed you to skip the pivot.

 

[friscuba]

The HIRSA website, under

Diving Related Business Members does not list a single operator. A PM has pointed out to me that if you click on the island names you get the operators, of which there are 19. I stand corrected.

I don't know any of the people at Seasport Divers, but a lot of people, out west anyway, refer to most of the California schools as Cal State whatever. University of California Santa Cruz does offer a Marine Biology degree, albeit a BS rather than a BA, but it appears the Captain didn't write his personal bio, could be an understandable error.

Cal State and the University of California are two entirely different systems, of radically different quality and status. No one who attended either would confuse them. I am from “out west” and I’ve never heard that mistake made.

UCSC offers a BS in Marine Biology not a BA as you indicate. If you had a degree would you forget where it was from and what kind of degree it was? If you had crewed this up and had it pointed out to you would you not have corrected it? [/QUOTE]



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On the same page of the HIRSA site, don't click on "Diving Related Business Members", it only lists the diving related business members, not the operator members. Click on the map of Hawaii an island at a time and you'll get the Dive Operator Members who are up on thier dues.

Many dive companies hire outside people to do their websites. There's no guarantee Andrew has even seen his profile (my guess is a large portion of the long term dive guides out here I know don't have a computer, and few that do actually spend time on their employers websites), or is so upset about being listed as having a BA rather than a BS or that his college was slanged that he has to pitch a fit with his boss and get them to pitch a fit with their webmaster to change it. This is not the world of academia, he's not out job hunting, it just doesn't matter. When I worked for someone else, I finally looked at my profile and saw they'd had me listed as running a B&B (I have an apartment for rent) - I told them this is wrong and they needed to change it, but I don't think it changed 'til I had quit for a year or two and they finally removed my info. Stuff just doesn't get updated much, point fingers at the operator if you want, but I don't think they are intentionally mis-representing or creating a degree out of thin air, elsewise they'd likely all have impressive credentials from non-existant entities.

 

[Thalassamania]

Perhaps you're right, but it was brought to their attention months ago.