Divemasters/Resorts making you flood and clear?

[JeffG]

#&@* !!!

You misspelled it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Having a person perform a skill without stress, without actually having to do it, is really the only way to gauge a divers reaction to a problem in the water.

I disagree. All it tells you is that they can do it without stress. If you want a better idea of how they'll manage problems, they have to be tasked more or be tested on their ability to manage multiple tasks and simulated problems.

I think this is exactly why so many divers freak over mask problems. They only do it in training and in training they can take their time doing it while kneeling on the bottom. They aren't ever even asked to do it while diving. In other words, they never really learned the skill to a useful level of proficiency in the first place. Using the same method as a skill evalutaion to see how the diver might respond to a problem is really a waste of time. At least have them do it midwater and demonstrate that they maintian depth and buddy contact. If we spend most of our diving time midwater then we can expect to be midwater when we run into a problem and that's where we need to be able to solve that problem. Further, the diver with the problem will still have those other things I mentioned to manage while they solve the problem.

It's probably also worth noting here that lost masks ore often really lost and there isn't any putting it back on. When diving in packs, they're sometimes lost or knocked sideways when someone kicks you in the face (I already pointed out that pack diving can be bad). The last time that happened to me I thought I'd been punched in the nose by Rocky Balboa. Having my mask flooded and half off my face was the least of my worries because I was just about knocked silly. Back when I used a rubber mask strap I had one break. It stayed broke but I had to finish the dive because I had students. I had a panicked diver tear my mask off along with my reg. I didn't have a free hand to use for squaring away my own gear for awhile. I had a mask knocked off in a real strange OOA incident once. The point is that in each case of losing a mask, I had several other things to manage while I dealt with the lost mask. Masks just never flood or come off when it's convenient.

A paid professional (DM, AI, Instructor) on a dive of any kind is 100% responsible for the safety of the divers. He or she is responsible for “somehow” identifying potential problems and as a paid professional they are also responsible for “somehow” being proactive and prevent problems that might have occurred.

I'm no lawyer and I'm sure it depends on which legal system we're talking about but I think you're wrong. The DM is responsible for acting in a reasonably prudent manor given the duty of care that exists.

 

[CompuDude]

Mike, I agree with you overall, but there's no denying that testing this skill test can still serve as a canary in a coal mine, which is why it's done.

It's not going to tell you whether a diver will come unglued under stress (short of a Fundies class or some serious stress testing, nothing reasonable for a vacation diver will accomplish that goal), but if they can't handle this simple skill, it at least let's you know you likely have a problem diver who can't even do basic skills in a NON-stress scenario... which is a far more frightening prospect. It's not going to guarantee the divers who CAN do it will be problem free, not by a long shot. But it flags the divers in most desperate need of a refresher on basic skills.

 

[Thalassamania]

I've got some bad news for you dude. In Hawaii it is now a U.S. Coast Guard mandate that you dive with, follow and follow the direction of a Professional Dive Leader (aka DM) on any paid dive from a commercial boat.

Can anyone document this for me?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike, I agree with you overall, but there's no denying that testing this skill test can still serve as a canary in a coal mine, which is why it's done.

It's not going to tell you whether a diver will come unglued under stress (short of a Fundies class or some serious stress testing, nothing reasonable for a vacation diver will accomplish that goal), but if they can't handle this simple skill, it at least let's you know you likely have a problem diver who can't even do basic skills in a NON-stress scenario... which is a far more frightening prospect. It's not going to guarantee the divers who CAN do it will be problem free, not by a long shot. But it flags the divers in most desperate need of a refresher on basic skills.

I agree. Don't get me wrong. As I said earlier, I'm not against skill checks. Anything is better than nothing and the sooner you identify a problem, the better.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Can anyone document this for me?

Sure what kind of document would you like?

 

[Thalassamania]

Sure what kind of document would you like?

A Notice to Mariners would be nice, but for the momment I'll take anything on the web or even hearsay. Anything to indicate that this is not the pile of steaming bantha poo-du I suspect it is.

I've made more checkout dives than most divers, between two and three dozen, and conducted more, on the order of several hundred, than most folks on this board. A checkout dive is required of me, every time I dive from a facility or ship or under the auspices of a new institution. Checkouts have ranged from the sublime to the downright stupid. Some made sense, some were taxing (one even required that I make a free ascent from the depth of our planned work, which was 120 feet) some were trivial and meaningless. Was I a paying customer I think that I would resent losing dives in order to perform a mundane set of skills before a DM who likely does not really know how to learn anything about me from the exercise except that I can clear my mask.

 

[deepblueme]

This required skill demo is not so much to make up for poor training it is to cover those "I havent been diving seince i was certified" crowd.

We made people do it where I worked in the VI.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Can anyone document this for me?

Call me a skeptic ... but I'd like to see it too ...

When did the USCG get into the business of regulating the scuba industry?

Why would they mandate such a thing in Hawaii, but not in the other states?

:huh:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dlndavid]

At the Bay Island Beach resort we had to do a partial flood/clear. Reg recovery and a fin pivot.

Since I did the clear and recovery in mid-water, I got to skip the fin pivot. LOL

and no, I don't have a problem with it. They (the DM's) just want an idea who is going to cause them grief during their stay.

so what did you do to cause him grief instead?