Divemasters/Resorts making you flood and clear?

[MikeFerrara]

Skill evaluations are a great idea IF they're meaningful and well organized. I'll happily demonstrate any skill relevant to a dive for any one that I'm going to be diving with but I will require the same of them.

I've been around when there were diving accidents and I'd like to avoid that in the future if I can. A few minutes of skill demonstrations might be an inconvenience but not as much of an inconvenience as when someone gets hurt or someone on the boat has problems and generally ruins the trip for everyone else.

The one thing that I would add here is that if I am diving with a DM, he becomes part of the dive team and I want to see his skills just as I want to see the skills of anyone else that I dive with.

I guess I have a couple of concerns here. First is with the way they ask skills to be demonstrated...all the kneeling stuff mentioned in this thread . You aught to be able to do about anything while you're kneeling on the bottom but it just doesn't count.

The second concern has to do with this "pack diving" mentality. It's hosed up. I dive in buddy teams of two or three. If there are more divers, they need to be split up into teams of two or three. As I said, I too want to know something about the skill level of those I dive with and if a DM is planning on leading a pack after having divers do meaningless skill demos on the bottom then I know this is someone who I don't need to be diving with.

This all sounds pretty fussy doesn't it? It probably is but my wife and I have learned our lesson about diving on recreational charters. Too many times we've spent a lot of money and time only to end up not getting to dive or having lousy dives because of other divers on the boat having trouble with things that just shouldn't cause trouble. These days we tend to steer clear of most charters unless we at least know or know about the others. It just isn't worth it to me anymore to spend a lot of money and time only to end up not diving or have to dive with a nervous stomach from watching people do their best to get themselves killed and/or tear up the dive site. I wouldn't even consider booking a trip without discussing all this up front. I am rather settled in how I am willing to dive, under what conditions and there are a lot of trips/charters I have to pass on. That's ok. I know what kind of diving I enjoy and I'd rather just not dive than do it any other way.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Interesting behavior from two dive 'professionals'. Reminds me of the level of maturity of the behavior of my two younger teenage daughters. On Roatan a couple of years ago, a LDS trip group went through the obligatory mask flood, remove, replace at the beginning of the first dive. Everyone, INCLUDING the shop owner / trip organizer (who is also an instructor, and who had been to the resort multiple times and was known to the staff) as well as several instructor-level divers in the group, several DMs, several relatively inexperienced divers, went through the process. It took all of 20 minutes for the group to get the exercise out of the way, after which we had a great first dive. I suspect the shop owner proactively did it to set a positive example for the rest of us. To protest that I should not have to do something this simple, because I am a DM or an Instructor, is somewhat silly.

Absolutely...only the experienced divers in the group shouldn't just be doing it to set an example. They should realize the importance of predive drills. It's one thjing to know how to do a thing or to have done it before but it's another to be equiped, prepared and able to do it here and now.

If there are mitigating circumstances (contacts, sunscreen issues, etc) it is reasonable to seek a compromise.

I disagree. You need a mask to see well but you don't need one to dive. If a diver isn't prepared to do without a mask right now, I'd rather not be in the water with them. If contacts are a potential problem it should be addressed somehow before diving. I guess yu might lose a contact but that isn't my concern. My concern would be making sure that the diver could still dive should they lose their mask and closing ones eyes doesn't work because you need to maintain position control and buddy contact/awareness through a mask problem. You can't do that with your eyes closed.

But, if I am asked to dive within certain limits (e.g. a maximum depth, or minimum end-of-dive air supply) as part of the business arrangement with a resort (I pay them money, they provide accomodations, services, diving opportunities), I will respect those limits, or ask politely for an exception. I may elect not to dive with them in the future if I feel they are too conservative. But, I won't get upset with staff (e.g. the DM) who are tasked as part of their employment with enforcing a policy set by the facility.

These are all things that need to be worked out before even booking the trip. Lots of boats don't want divers doing this that or the other. AFIK, they have a right to run their business any way they want.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

A word about the "pack diving" ... it was my experience while at CocoView that after the initial checkout dive, it's your choice to stay with the DM on a given dive. If you choose, you can wander around and do your own dive ... they weren't "herding" anybody (at least, ours didn't).

The biggest advantage I see to staying with the DM is that he/she knows where the good stuff is, and will point out interesting critters that most of us wouldn't recognize if we stared right at it.

Cheng and I usually wandered off on our own at some point during those dives ... and sometimes after getting back on the boat we learned we missed something really cool. It's the trade-off for the freedom to do our own dive plan, and one we accepted.

Keep in mind, also, that ... at least at CocoView ... those who did a return dive on the walls simply got dropped off on the way back. It was up to the individual diver to return to the lodge on their own. So I don't believe that "herding" is their normal way of doing business. It's one of the things I liked about the place ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[SharkDiver36]

The request is to perform a skill is, especially one as a basic as mask clearing, is not unreasonable.

Having a person perform a skill without stress, without actually having to do it, is really the only way to gauge a divers reaction to a problem in the water.

A paid professional (DM, AI, Instructor) on a dive of any kind is 100% responsible for the safety of the divers. He or she is responsible for “somehow” identifying potential problems and as a paid professional they are also responsible for “somehow” being proactive and prevent problems that might have occurred.

No person should be insulted by any request from a DM / Instructor. In most cases the rules they set forth, the actions they have divers take are all as a direct result of some “incident” in the water. The rule or action they have is in an effort to solve or prevent a repeat of that incident, whatever it was.

I will admit it irritates me if a staff person a dive boat checks to see if my gear is together properly or if I can clear my mask. Experience has taught these people (including me) that everyone makes a mistake; everything they do is an effort to prevent a problem and we should respect what they ask us to do.

What they ask us to do is in the interest of our safety and the safety of the group.

 

[KrisB]

I will admit it irritates me if a staff person a dive boat checks to see if my gear is together properly or if I can clear my mask.

On that note, I think it's important to distinguish between "checking" and "touching".

If *anybody* touches my gear on a dive boat, they'd better have a darn good reason. And "checking" it isn't one of them. If they want to visually inspect it, or make sure the tank valve is on, fine. Beyond that... you're asking for trouble! I won't even let the boat crews set it up... sometimes this makes for an awkward setup moment midway between dock and dive site, but that's life. At least I know my gear is setup the way *I* want it.

 

[vel525]

Personally, I tend to agree with the OP. If a DM wants to check how my dive skills are, he/she can make first dive at an easy site. The DM will be able to tell fairly quickly which divers might be problematic...you know, the divers that look like they're dog paddling underwater, obiviously having to constantly play with their inflator, etc. I always thought that's how DMs know who to keep an extra eye on.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

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[JeffG]

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[riguerin]

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[MXGratefulDiver]

#&@* !!!