Dive shops and training: the disconnect with reality

[MXGratefulDiver]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Off topic chatter moved to a more appropriate place.

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The Recycle Bin?



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[idocsteve]

The Recycle Bin?



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Not Quite

 

[jbtut]

Hi JB. I think that using a 10ft. SMB as a lift device would be awkward. In order to fill it with air you would give up the ability to manipulate the dump valve effectively on the way up. Most (at least the ones I know) divers up here opt for a lift bag in the 50# range (not a long SMB). This is folded up and stored behind the back or in some other out of the way but accessable spot.

As far as redundant bladders goes. I have no firm opinion on the issue other than that I opt not to have both bouyancy devices in an area where one action can damage both. I can see some mechanisms of injury scenarios where both bladders could be holed at once. I use a drysuit, BC and a 50# lift bag.

Some hardy souls do use wetsuits up here but, as Lynne states, they are in the minority. I admire their toughness but WS diving in coldwater has three downsides to me:

Suit compression means less insulation at depth. This is overcome by doubling up 7mm core layers (usually) which results in a lot of lead needed to overcome surface bouyancy.

Dive times are limited. I'm sure there are some who think they can dive the same profiles as a DS diver but they just haven't done a long dive yet. The invite is out to anyone in a 7mm semidry and a single Al 80 who thinks they can join me for a 90min+, 45F degree dive (within Rec NDL limits of course).

It's the second dive that gets you. Most divers can do the first <1hr dive in a WS even in 45F water but they usually begin to get chilled during the SI. After that they hit the second dive cold and hypothermia becomes a factor to consider. Try adding a third dive and you are pushing the limits (though it can and has been done).

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with diving a wetsuit in cold water. I plan on diving a single 7mm this summer (for easier profiles) to give my DS a rest from wear and tear.

Oh, i wouldn't use a SMB as a primary lift device, just as an emergency backup. I was only thinking that if you were into diving deep with heavy gear and a thick suit, and you were going to carry a SMB anyway, it might be worth while to have one with enough lift to get you up easily. If I was going to use one I would probably send it up to the surface first and pull on the line to bring myself up at a reasonable rate. And make sure the string is good for 50lbs of course.

70 degree water is cold water diving to me, so I really have no preference for wet v. dry diving. I'd like to give it a try sometime.

 

[dwhthediver]

I'm going to look into a shorter regulator hose...in fact I'll be at the dive shop sometime this week to have the vent hose on my Balance BCD swapped out with a longer one, that would be a great time to look into that.

As far as my dangling sausage, maybe I'll just get a 4th retractor.

???? You share air by handing off your primary, a shorter hose is exactly WHAT YOU DON'T WANT, a long enough hose to to wrap would be better. You are picking on guys wearing doubles and drysuits, saying they cover up weaker skills, and you want to shorten the hose on your primary, so sharing air becomes harder???? Whatever dude, you are way too over the top on your own skill assessment.

 

[dwhthediver]

Basically I don't see why people get uptight here about other people disliking their gear setup. I don't like lots of things in life but it doesn't mean that I think the people who do like them are inferior. There are some setups in diving that I think *are* stupid but they are rare, mostly I just find other setups inefficient or not to my personal tastes.

I don't get upset about it, because I dive what works for me and I am learning on every dive, was my bouyancy better Sunday under the ice than it was a hundred dives ago? You bet it was! Unfortunately, there are people on this board who whether they mean it or not, come across as "dive my way or you are an idiot", in case you can't tell from a bunch of previous posts, and BTW isn't this way off topic anyways?

 

[Sas]

! Unfortunately, there are people on this board who whether they mean it or not, come across as "dive my way or you are an idiot"

And what if they do actually mean it? Does it matter.. really? As you said, if you are comfortable doing what works for you, do you really care that a bunch of people on the internet see you as an idiot?

Edit: Seeing as there has been some confusion over what my meaning was with this post. I was not calling anyone here an idiot. Just stating that if some random person thinks you're an idiot (for whatever reason), I don't think people should get upset over this as others' opinions of your gear shouldn't matter if you are happy. There are lots of bits of my gear that people think are stupid but oh well.

 

[idocsteve]

???? You share air by handing off your primary, a shorter hose is exactly WHAT YOU DON'T WANT, a long enough hose to to wrap would be better. You are picking on guys wearing doubles and drysuits, saying they cover up weaker skills, and you want to shorten the hose on your primary, so sharing air becomes harder???? Whatever dude, you are way too over the top on your own skill assessment.

I realize I was given poor advice by well meaning ScubaBoard members, and although I stated that I would look into shortening my primary hose, I now realize that is a very bad idea due to the very reasons you suggest.

I have posted as much earlier in this thread but you missed it.

 

[Mattleycrue76]

I don't take anyone's word for anything. You say Bob's a great diver, someone else says someone else is a great diver. I don't believe it unless I see it with my own eyes.

After reading this thread in it's entirety I seriously doubt your ability to evaluate anyone's diving greatness. If I were you I probably wouldn't want to embarass my Instructor by posting his or her name either.

I would like to give you props for deciding to go the solo diver route though. This way your combination of ignorance and arrogance is a threat only to yourself.

 

[idocsteve]

After reading this thread in it's entirety I seriously doubt your ability to evaluate anyone's diving greatness.

Good thing for me, Mattley, what you think, feel, doubt or acknowledge is of no interest to me whatsoever.

 

[Sas]

I realize I was given poor advice by well meaning ScubaBoard members, and although I stated that I would look into shortening my primary hose, I now realize that is a very bad idea due to the very reasons you suggest.

I have posted as much earlier in this thread but you missed it.

You misinterpreted their advice. That was not what they were suggesting. They were telling you it could be routed in a more streamlined way.

Also your bailout plan is unsafe. If you have an interest in being a safe diver you should learn about gas management. Your solo instructor failed you if this wasn't made apparent to you though I'm guessing seeing as you've ignored people here telling you your bailout plan with your pony is stupid, perhaps s/he did and you just ignored it. As I said in an earlier post,

There are some setups in diving that I think *are* stupid but they are rare, mostly I just find other setups inefficient or not to my personal tastes.

Your bailout plan for a 135ft dive is one of those rare, deliberately stupid things I have seen in diving. There is no need, in an emergency situation, to have a plan that involves you swimming upwards very quickly. You can carry enough gas to ascend at a normal rate and avoid the problems that can occur due to a rapid ascent rate.

Also what is this guff about breathing as conservatively as you can? I take it you've never had a problem underwater if you think in an emergency you will be able to breathe conservatively. When I have shared air with OOA divers, their air consumption has been huge (like, 40L/min).

And there is no need to have so little bailout air that your plan involves waiting until you run out of air at 15ft and then ascending.

Read up on gas management and learn how to apply it to your diving if you have an interest in diving safely. Given you dive by yourself, I would really recommend having an interest in your own safety as there will be no one around to cover your arse when a problem occurs.