Discussion on cancer research drugs (Split from Rob Steward Court Case Thread)

[tridacna]

Each state has a different set of rules regarding solicitation. Here in NJ, it's prohibited. You can't get calls from attorneys or get a visit from a "runner" while you're in the hospital.

Illinois Rule of Professional Conduct 7.3, which governs in-person solicitation of clients, provides in subsection (a) that "a lawyer shall not by in-person, live telephone or real-time electronic contact solicit professional employment when a significant motive for the lawyer's doing so is the lawyer's pecuniary gain…."

Looks like the same rules apply in Illinois. Now whether they are followed or not is another thing. I would ask your PI attorney friends what their thoughts are here. I'd be interested in their responses.

Advertising is something else. I agree that big pharma has taken over the airwaves. We have very few ads here for attorneys. OTOH, I had no idea that so many people need Cialis, Humira, Trulicity, Lyrica and my all-time favorite: Movantik. (Great name). They should be banned. I have several doctor friends who detest this stuff. I believe that pharma spends between 7-10 $B on these. Who knew that many people had Moderate to Severe Psoriasis anyway?

 

[boulderjohn]

believe that pharma spends between 7-10 $B on these.

Several years ago I saw an interview with the editor of the New England Journal of medicine (IIRC), just after they had come out with a scathing attack on big pharma and the drug prices. (This was long before the current absurdities.) Presented with the industry line that the huge prices are needed to support research, she had the figures--the amount they spend on research is paltry, especially in comparison with the amount they spend on advertising. More important is the reason they don't spend all that much on research. Most of the research is done in universities, with the work paid for by grants provided through tax dollars. When a discovery is made, big pharma swoops in and buys the rights. So we pay for most of the research though our tax dollars, and then we pay for the advertising at the pharmacy counter.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

They healed. Sry, but it's not in the same league as a death or dismemberment to me.

"Full recovery?" Not sure if they can get that part of the body the same as it was before. We are not talking about a scar on the bottom of one's foot. Also, we are talking about hundreds of incidents, so I think the a-hole factor of the defendant might possibly influence the final award. Let other a-holes take notice.

 

[dmaziuk]

More important is the reason they don't spend all that much on research. Most of the research is done in universities, with the work paid for by grants provided through tax dollars. When a discovery is made, big pharma swoops in and buys the rights. So we pay for most of the research though our tax dollars, and then we pay for the advertising at the pharmacy counter.

Your tax dollars pay me to run servers to collect and store experimental data from scientists kind enough to donate it to "humanity". Sometimes we get pharma people downloading the data from us. What they use it for, and how their use is related to the original researchers' research, is anyone's guess. (Though people who know what it's about can often make a good one.)

I.e. there's usually a very big gap between university discovery and mass-manufactured pill on the drugstore counter. The times when some prof's Chinese post-doc discovers a cure-all, the professor goes commercial (after being regretfully unable to secure another H1B visa for said post-doc), and sells hist startup to big bad pharma for a cool billion bucks, are the ones that make the splash, but IRL they are few and far between.

 

[KevinNM]

I.e. there's usually a very big gap between university discovery and mass-manufactured pill on the drugstore counter. The times when some prof's Chinese post-doc discovers a cure-all, the professor goes commercial (after being regretfully unable to secure another H1B visa for said post-doc), and sells hist startup to big bad pharma for a cool billion bucks, are the ones that make the splash, but IRL they are few and far between.

Like a couple of hundred million and 5 years spent on phase 3 clinical trails, which often end up either not convincing the FDA or not even convincing the drug maker that there is a useful drug here.

 

[tridacna]

Like a couple of hundred million and 5 years spent on phase 3 clinical trails, which often end up either not convincing the FDA or not even convincing the drug maker that there is a useful drug here.

Damn. You actually made me go get a box of Kleenex to wipe away the crocodile tears of sadness for those poor pharmas and their mega-billions in annual profits.

 

[mdb]

I have a nephew who works for Merck.

He was recently promoted to head a clinical test team.

He cut his holiday vacation short to get back to work on Tuesday.

My Brother told me: " Well now that he is the team head he does not want the other members
of the team to give up their holiday schedule. He is trying to be a good manager. The students
have to get their drugs."

The Universities get their grants. The Pharma companies do their tests. Ever more drugs are
introduced.

My BIL was a over the counter pharmacist for a large NE supermarket chain. He was fairly cynical
about it all.

He once told me: "Well it's Friday, everyone will be in for Vitamin V (Vicodin) the Doctors just keep
on renewing the prescriptions These people are hooked.".

 

[Steve_C]

You are being far too kind to say it is just business. There are drug companies deliberately trying to push addictive medicine

NC sues drugmaker accused of bribing doctors to prescribe powerful opioid spray
By Anne Blythe

UPDATED December 22, 2017 06:20 AM

RALEIGH
Attorney General Josh Stein filed a lawsuit on Thursday against Insys Therapeutics, an Arizona-based pharmaceutical company that he accused of illegally pushing a fentanyl-based cancer pain medication at headache clinics in North Carolina to fatten company coffers.

The lawsuit, filed in Wake County Superior Court, focuses on Subsys, a spray form of fentanyl that is 50 times stronger than heroin, according to Stein, and 100 times more potent than morphine.

Because the medication is so powerful and addictive, the lawsuit contends, Subsys is only supposed to be marketed to prescribers for use by cancer patients experiencing “severe ‘breakthrough’ pain” after other pain medications no longer provide relief.

Because that was such a limited market, Stein contends, the company developed a strategy to push doctors to prescribe the drug to non-cancer patients. To bolster his claim, the attorney general highlighted comments that Alec Burlakoff, a Charlotte-based vice president of sales, is alleged to have made at a national sales meeting in 2015 before he was indicted and arrested a year later.

“These (doctors) will tell you all the time, well, I’ve only got like eight patients with cancer,” the lawsuit describes Burlakoff saying at the meeting. “... Doc, I’m not talking about any of those patients. I don’t want any of those patients. That’s, that’s small potatoes. That’s nothing. That’s not what I’m here doing.”

That strategy, according to the lawsuit, included “giving illegal kickbacks — often in the form of speaking fees — to doctors who excelled at promoting and prescribing Subsys to non-cancer patients.” The lawsuit contends that Insys deceived health insurance companies into paying for prescriptions by leading the insurers to believe the drugs were being prescribed to cancer patients when they knew they weren’t.

Insys employees also urged doctors to switch patients being prescribed other drugs not as potent as Subsys to their product, which often was at a starting dose more than 10 times what the label directed.

Joe McGrath, a spokesman for the company, said there would be no comment from Insys at this time.
Read more here: NC sues drugmaker accused of bribing doctors to prescribe powerful opioid spray

 

[mdb]

Doctors have been getting "bribed" for years for kickbacks on prescriptions.

One of my Nieces was a Pharma rep.

She was making 120k+a year and a nice bonus for talking the Docs into telling their
patients they needed the drugs. Of course the Doc's got free samples.

She is a good looking gal.

She was representing large companies with big budgets.

She quit.

I still have a nephew in the biss. He hates his job, and is trying to find a new one.

I hope he does.

 

[mdb]

You are being far too kind to say it is just business. There are drug companies deliberately trying to push addictive medicine

NC sues drugmaker accused of bribing doctors to prescribe powerful opioid spray
By Anne Blythe

UPDATED December 22, 2017 06:20 AM

RALEIGH
Attorney General Josh Stein filed a lawsuit on Thursday against Insys Therapeutics, an Arizona-based pharmaceutical company that he accused of illegally pushing a fentanyl-based cancer pain medication at headache clinics in North Carolina to fatten company coffers.

The lawsuit, filed in Wake County Superior Court, focuses on Subsys, a spray form of fentanyl that is 50 times stronger than heroin, according to Stein, and 100 times more potent than morphine.

Because the medication is so powerful and addictive, the lawsuit contends, Subsys is only supposed to be marketed to prescribers for use by cancer patients experiencing “severe ‘breakthrough’ pain” after other pain medications no longer provide relief.

Because that was such a limited market, Stein contends, the company developed a strategy to push doctors to prescribe the drug to non-cancer patients. To bolster his claim, the attorney general highlighted comments that Alec Burlakoff, a Charlotte-based vice president of sales, is alleged to have made at a national sales meeting in 2015 before he was indicted and arrested a year later.

“These (doctors) will tell you all the time, well, I’ve only got like eight patients with cancer,” the lawsuit describes Burlakoff saying at the meeting. “... Doc, I’m not talking about any of those patients. I don’t want any of those patients. That’s, that’s small potatoes. That’s nothing. That’s not what I’m here doing.”

That strategy, according to the lawsuit, included “giving illegal kickbacks — often in the form of speaking fees — to doctors who excelled at promoting and prescribing Subsys to non-cancer patients.” The lawsuit contends that Insys deceived health insurance companies into paying for prescriptions by leading the insurers to believe the drugs were being prescribed to cancer patients when they knew they weren’t.

Insys employees also urged doctors to switch patients being prescribed other drugs not as potent as Subsys to their product, which often was at a starting dose more than 10 times what the label directed.

Joe McGrath, a spokesman for the company, said there would be no comment from Insys at this time.
Read more here: NC sues drugmaker accused of bribing doctors to prescribe powerful opioid spray

The Pharma companies are just like the tobacco companies.

They want the people addicted to what they are selling, good for their business, who cares about their health.