Discussion of best practices for advancing in cave diving (moved from A&I JB thread)

[berndo]

I've never tried looks like a PIA, and I doubt it's viable with the Sidewinder.

It's pretty easy but I was talking OC. Probably doesn't make sense to try with the SW as the cans sit where the tm stage is supposed to sit.

 

[Germie]

That's why people should progress slowly over years rather than zero-to-hero rush through levels.

You talk about years, why not about hours or amount of dives?

 

[lermontov]

You're right, thank you! I missed it was about stages. Still, there is a significant difference. With 200 bar stages, the 1/3 gives 60 bar of usable gas to enter and 60 bar to exit. The half+14 bar gives 80 bar - a 33% absolute increase, not really a similar result.

Anyway, again, I am not really sure why we are still discussing having reserve gas in the stages, but I might have missed something in the thread... so forget my posts if I am making a bit of confusion

on a 200 bar stage if we use 60 bar to enter (as per your comment ) which means we have 140 to exit ( assuming your still talking about stages)
however i think the discussion has progressed and im now in favour of carrying reserves

 

[ginti]

on a 200 bar stage if we use 60 bar to enter (as per your comment ) which means we have 140 to exit ( assuming your still talking about stages)
however i think the discussion has progressed and im now in favour of carrying reserves

Yes, my point was that according to the calculation you have 60 bar to enter, 60 to exit and 80 for reserve in case problems arise...

But you are perfectly right, you would have both the "exit gas" and the "reserve" when you exit, which means 140. Similarly in the other scenario

 

[kensuf]

You talk about years, why not about hours or amount of dives?

Gel time. Some time for it to all sink in helps.

 

[berndo]

Gel time. Some time for it to all sink in helps.

That and I'd like to add that (for non-locals especially) it usually takes years to build a meaningful amount of cave experience to begin with.

 

[L13]

That and I'd like to add that (for non-locals especially) it usually takes years to build a meaningful amount of cave experience to begin with.

But be careful, because knowledge and skills can evaporate if not refreshed often enough. 2-3 bursts of dives over a decade are probably less effective than the same number of dives spread out over the decade. Though less than 3 dives per trip is probably also not going to be as effective. It's all a balance, but calendar time does mater too, not just time under water.

 

[Manatee Diver]

But be careful, because knowledge and skills can evaporate if not refreshed often enough. 2-3 bursts of dives over a decade are probably less effective than the same number of dives spread out over the decade. Though less than 3 dives per trip is probably also not going to be as effective. It's all a balance, but calendar time does mater too, not just time under water.

That is actually a conversation that I've had with tourist cave divers, when I mentioned I scale back after being dry for a month or two.

If you are only doing a few dives per a trip a couple of times per a year, most of the trip would be just getting back to the level you were at the end of your last trip. It would be hard to progress much further. But TBH that isn't a big deal, particularly in Mexico, there is a ton of stuff to see without getting too terribly advanced beyond full cave or stage cave level.

 

[ginti]

That is actually a conversation that I've had with tourist cave divers, when I mentioned I scale back after being dry for a month or two.

If you are only doing a few dives per a trip a couple of times per a year, most of the trip would be just getting back to the level you were at the end of your last trip. It would be hard to progress much further.

I am not advanced enough to really feel the issue, but I feel that it actually depends on the other type of dives one does during the year. If a diver manages to do, say, 15 cave diving per year over three trips but does a lot of tech multistage and scooter diving at home, wouldn't it be very easy to go back to the previous level? Say, over 5 dives in one trip, one dive to refresh and the other to have fun?

I think it also depends on whether the system is familiar or not... in a new cave system, it is probably wise to advance step by step, while if the diver knows a specific cave relatively well (say, 20 dives in that specific system), going further would not be too much of a problem.

Would you agree with this or not?

I am especially curious because I am a non-local, and I think I reached a level where building experience is tough enough

 

[berndo]

But be careful, because knowledge and skills can evaporate if not refreshed often enough. 2-3 bursts of dives over a decade are probably less effective than the same number of dives spread out over the decade.

It's a strawman argument. Obviously 'building experience over years' means that the person actually goes diving in caves regularly and not '2-3 bursts of dive over a decade'.