“Demonstration skills”

[Eric Sedletzky]

@boulderjohn So, I was a student, not so long ago, and I will say that, while practicing in kneeling position definitely had a lot of issues, I do think it was the only way the class I was in could've worked. We had a couple hours for something like eight students per instructor to run through all the skills, in addition to just like, learning to use the gear and dealing with equipment issues that arose from crappy rental gear (such as O-rings that leaked and a bag weight that was losing BB's with every shift in position). In terms of buoyancy, weighting, and trim, I think even a moderately skilled diver would've been challenged to get neutral under the conditions we were in (shallow water, BCD's with only one location for weights to go and a poor buoyancy profile for trim, relatively large changes in tank weight because we were newbies and burning through air like there was no tomorrow, etc). There simply wasn't time for it with the schedule we had to keep. Now, you might say that means it was a bad course, and I'd agree, but ultimately we got our certifications and, to the best of my knowledge, everyone came out a safe diver, so I'd say it was "bad, but passable."

From there, I kind of agree with @NW Dive Dawg. Like, most of the skills in the course aren't useful to start with. Mask clearing and removal/replacement is something anybody can realistically figure out without a formal instructor, so whether you do it kneeling or in neutral buoyancy, you'll figure it out soon enough in live exercise. Donning/doffing was a useless exercise, because we were using crappy rental BCDs in improper sizes that we would probably never use again, and thus, as I've stated above, my don/doff routine looks very, very different now that I'm diving a different rig with extra gear like a helmet, spikes, and a computer. Also, I'm not even sure if you can doff in neutral? Like, realistically, I remove my gear either on the surface, or (hypothetically), on the bottom because I'm snagged or entangled. Not sure why/how I'd do it while floating. Similarly, I feel reg retrieval was largely useless, as on the occasion in real life I've had my reg get dislodged in the water, itself a rare occurrence, I immediately switch to my octo and retrieve my main reg at my leisure, which, again, usually takes a couple tries, because my IRL dive conditions involve a heavy current and a helmet that, combined, make it hard to reach either the second stage or stem of the regset.

IMO, there are three skills from my open water course that were actually of any use to me. One, don't hold you breath, which I include because it is very dangerous and yet also highly counterintuitive, so good advice. That being said, I didn't learn actual good breathing techniques until I watched a Diver's Ready (or maybe Scuba Magazine) video on the subject. Two, using an octo. Getting in the habit of pressing the purge button, either when donating to another or switching for your own use, can be huge, since inhaling a mouthpiece full of water can be dangerous. Once again, this is a habit that really only became ingrained through later practice and a "well, I'll never do that again" moment a hundred feet down, but I include because it was something we practiced that is actually a solid skill to drill into new divers. Three, using dive tables. Fairly self explanatory. And all three of these skills...can be done either in kneel or in neutral buoyancy.

In all seriousness, maybe everyone else's OW courses were way better, but in mine, most of the skills seemed useless, obvious, or poorly laid out, to the extent that kneeling or floating, it doesn't matter.

It sounds like you got what is probably the industry standard course in this day and age.
Most new students to scuba have very little to no water experience prior to taking a scuba class.
Then gear is typical Rental stuff that is mediocre at best and probably has several poor maintenance issues. It’s quite an ordeal for someone to be stuffed into all that unfamiliar gear and made to do a series of dog and pony show tricks in unfamiliar gear in an unfamiliar environment breathing off scuba for the first time. They tell me they feel like a stuffed sausage and clousterphobic. They don’t get time to acclimate and get used to the gear.
When I got certified at least I had some freediving experience already because we have (had) a big freediving for abalone culture in the area, so many people around here getting into scuba were already water ocean surfer freediver types. I honestly don’t know how dry gill people could do it going straight off the street then shoved into scuba gear and thrown into a pool with no prior experience. My hat is off to those that keep their cool and get through, really! But I guess that’s the majority of OW certifications are exactly that now days.
And as far as the timing thing, yeah they march you right through, time is money. As long as you perform all the skills without freaking out and bolting you’re good. Nobody said you had to like it.
God help modern scuba training.
It’s all about the money.

 

[TMHeimer]

So for Northwest diving maybe they should teach all skills neutrally buoyant while blindfolded by a blacked out mask.

But seriously......what's really the downside of doing the first run through of initial skills in the pool on the knees and then moving to neutral for the rest of the course?

I don't think there is a downside. Particularly if you have decent water experience and common sense. We are in the minority. Rehashing old stuff, I think the big plus of a neutral course is probably that students not doing the skills must always be neutral in the pool observing. There aren't that many skills that are done on the knees (or neutral).