DEMA lack of ETHICS

[drbill]

Rules? Yikes... I didn't know that. I just dive and dive and dive... and I do it, as Frank Sinatra sang, "my way." I can ignore most equipment or association restrictions... have ever since I started diving back in the early 60's. I don't complain about how others dive unless (1) their lack of training, discourtesy towards other divers or ineptness impacts my diving and that of others or (2) they tell me that I'm not diving the way I should be.

I've never attended DEMA, but am thinking of it next year when it is in Vague-***. I'd be much more interested in it if it were still the DE(and Manufacturing)A since my interest would be in interfacing with actual equipment manufacturers. I can get plenty of travel information at the annual Long Beach SCUBA Show, which I attend largely to do so.

As for LDS'es not getting along. We have three actual shops here and another operator. For the most part, things are quite cooperative here because folks on the island (at least in the dive business) want to make sure our visitors to Catalina have a good experience. If our (Scuba Luv's) boat isn't going out, but the CDS boat is, we send them there and vice versa. If they don't have a certain piece of equipment a customer desires, they send them to Scuba Luv. Heck I even did the promotional video for CDS (with the full approval of Scuba Luv).

We try to work together even though we are competing for the same customers, because it makes for a better experience for our island visitors. Of course we're a small community and "everyone" knows one another so we see one another as people rather than as abstract competitors.

 

[almitywife]

...We try to work together even though we are competing for the same customers,........

geez, i must be watching too much american tv as i would hvae guessed it was a matter of keep your enemies close

 

[Johnoly]

WHAT other sport does this to this extent?

Skydiving is even worse for rules, training, license/certs. If you stop jumping(diving) for 90 days, you need to get recertified! And they point fingers at us because we dive with sharks!

I am happy to pay, when I am getting something I want.

No arguments there!

 

[mike_s]

Skydiving is even worse for rules, training, license/certs. If you stop jumping(diving) for 90 days, you need to get recertified! And they point fingers at us because we dive with sharks!

So how does the sport of Skydiving treat the internet for internet sales? (or EBAY, etc).

 

[Doc]

Skydiving is even worse for rules, training, license/certs. If you stop jumping(diving) for 90 days, you need to get recertified!

So you think diving needs the same kind of federal regulation?

That's the difference.

So how does the sport of Skydiving treat the internet for internet sales? (or EBAY, etc).

The manufacturers (versus "the sport") and retailers sell the stuff like popcorn SkydiveStore.com - Skydive Equipment - Containers, Parachutes, Altimeters, Canopies - Gear on the net. There is no restraint of trade, there are no "local recognized standards of regulation" (ie: C-Cards) that kick-in, until you use an airplane ride as a one way journey. That is where the similarity to air-fills comes in.

 

[Johnoly]

So you think diving needs the same kind of federal regulation?

That's the difference.

Ohh please no! Catherine's question was what other sport was similar .

But just for smiles..............
They do allow solo diving!!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

personally, I think it is all the rules that turn many off.

It is a "nanny" hobby. Those other sports you named do not judge people for choosing to surf big dangerous waves or flip off snow banks upside down.

Hmmm ... not sure I buy that completely. When I was really into skiing I've had my lift ticket pulled for skiing in the "wrong" place, or for skiing in a way that someone with far less experience than me determined was "inappropriate".

We don't have "dive patrol" personnel running around underwater enforcing rules, like they do in the ski industry. And there's a fair amount of subjectivity involved in how those rules get enforced ... it usually boils down to the judgment of the patroller ... some of whom are not very mature or very experienced at all.

The scuba industry needs to lighten up, all the way around. People that believe in "live and let live" get a whiff of all this and just gravitate in the other direction to something else. I am pretty good at finding dive destinations where I can manuever for the freedom I seek, and having a boat or friends that have boats helps. Would I dive if I was paying for these commercial services, signing liabilty waivers, medical UNILATERAL pages of oaths, profiles set by somebody else, rules, rules, rules? No, I would not do it because it does not sound fun. It sounds miserable.

Unfortunately, this is a result of the "dumbing down" of dive training, and hence the need to "protect" people from their own ignorance. The vast majority of people who dive cannot be trusted to make good decisions ... because they're neither adequately trained nor experienced enough to do so.

And, of course, where the USA is concerned, there are liability issues to consider ... one can't blame businesses for trying to protect their butt from irresponsible people who wouldn't be willing to take responsibility for their decisions and actions.

Most recreational activities are gravitating to "nanny hobbies" ... because most people demand fast and easy access without being willing to take responsibility for themselves ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[redacted]

We don't have "dive patrol" personnel running around underwater enforcing rules, like they do in the ski industry.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Sure we do. They are called Dive Masters. If the diver buys the equivalent of a "lift ticket", there is almost surely a set of rules and a DM to see that they are followed.

 

[Doc]

And, of course, where the USA is concerned, there are liability issues to consider ... one can't blame businesses for trying to protect their butt from irresponsible people who wouldn't be willing to take responsibility for their decisions and actions.

The awful truth. :dollar::dollar::dollar::dollar::deal:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sure we do. They are called Dive Masters. If the diver buys the equivalent of a "lift ticket", there is almost surely a set of rules and a DM to see that they are followed.

Maybe where you dive ... where I dive, divemasters help teach classes ... but you won't see them working on charter boats or guiding divers around a dive site. We're expected to be able to do that for ourselves.

Here, most of our dives are shore dives ... and people just gear up and go diving. If you go out on a charter boat, the crew will help you get your gear on (if you want them to), give you a dive briefing, and tell you to have a nice dive. They may or may not put a time limit on the dive ... but that's more determined by tidal conditions than anything else ... and following that limit is often "optional".

In effect, if you plan to dive here, you'd better be able to plan and execute your own dive. If you do something stupid, you have nobody but yourself to blame for it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)