DEMA lack of ETHICS

[almitywife]

More bimbo pix please.

no, lets not please


from someone that is actually thinking of making the trip from half way around the world, this is actually a interesting topic


cheers

 

[DiveScoop]

From someone who was AT the DEMA show and has personal knowledge of what happened, here's what I can add to this situation:

Atomic IS a sponsor of the TeamScuba NASCAR
Atomic's graphic WAS on the car in the days leading up to the start of the show
Atomic's graphic was REMOVED prior to the start of the show
The "reason" given for the removal of the graphic was that Atomic was not exhibiting at the Show
Atomic officials are aware of the situation (and are not pleased) - They are dealing with the issue internally

Suggestion: It's safe to say that someone made some bad judgements here. Why don't we focus on some of the good stuff that happened at DEMA last week?

 

[almitywife]

....Atomic officials are aware of the situation (and are not pleased) - They are dealing with the issue internally...

lawyers at 10 paces????

....... Why don't we focus on some of the good stuff that happened at DEMA last week?

well if we did, then that might be off topic

 

[DiveScoop]

and one more observation - It is indeed true that Mr. Ingram lost his home (apartment) in the recent San Diego fires and I find it appalling that someone would try to equate that with what happened at the show for a cheap laugh or entertainment.

POOR TASTE and POOR FORM for certain!

 

[nizaha]

All this over a sticker on a model car?

Hell if I were DEMA, I would be worried about the attendee who was run over by the golf cart 30 minutes before the show ended..

yup, I was shock that times, I just miss 10 sec before accident happen. Thanks to DAN staff as well. They're pretty good jobs.

 

[Mo2vation]

Suggestion: It's safe to say that someone made some bad judgements here. Why don't we focus on some of the good stuff that happened at DEMA last week?

RoyaleDiver - Why do you believe $70 per diver acquisition is expensive? In the consumer electronics industry (simply because these are the numbers I have at my fingers) several experts estimate the number "average between $68 to $75..." Think of how much Sony spends to get you to think "Sony" - how much does Panasonic spend to make you think of them when you think Plasma? How much did Sharp spend to be top of mind for LCD TV? Samsung to become the "official flat panel TV of the NFL...?" The answer is billions. The acquisition in major CE averages $70-ish across all product categories. Much more on the high end products.

If I look around my home, and I look at all of the many tens-of-thousands of dollars I've spent directly on diving in my short (since 1999) time as a diver, and add up the indirect dollars I've spent as a result of being a diver (from parking, to gasoline, to choice of vehicle, choice of camera which drove choice of computer, to lifestyle purchases - watch, clothing, fitness, sunscreen, etc. that support my diving lifestyle) the indirect dollars spent as the result of being a diver have to be several times more than the direct costs spent on equipment, training, etc. We're deep into six figures - and I'm not even a tech diver.

For their $70 investment, the Dive Industry has done very, very well on me - as they have on most anyone who's reading this right now.

The issue isn't high-acquisition costs, its inept retention practices. And to that, there are few industries that match diving in poorly handling their customers. That said, for years the industry has been chasing the wrong people to turn into new divers. And in their defense, DEMA is about to fix that with the campaign. Will people come flocking to the sport? Of course not. Very few of us, let alone non-divers can even name a living, professional diver. But there is no issue naming and recognizing professional golfers, skateboarders, surfers, bike riders and other leaders in the recreational pursuits that are competing for the same share-of-wallet as diving is.

Don't get hung up on "dive shops" as the ones spending the $70 per diver (its DEMA, the industry association spending it) or "dive shops" as the ones solely benefiting from DEMA's investment. The dive industry is much, much more than the dive shop. (DEMA is the equipment manufacturer's association, not the dive shop's association.)

$70 is a bargain for new customer acquisition. But with no retention plan, its just flushing cash.

---
Ken

 

[El Orans]

If I look around my home, and I look at all of the many tens-of-thousands of dollars I've spent directly on diving in my short (since 1999) time as a diver, and add up the indirect dollars I've spent as a result of being a diver (from parking, to gasoline, to choice of vehicle, choice of camera which drove choice of computer, to lifestyle purchases - watch, clothing, fitness, sunscreen, etc. that support my diving lifestyle) the indirect dollars spent as the result of being a diver have to be several times more than the direct costs spent on equipment, training, etc. We're deep into six figures - and I'm not even a tech diver.

For their $70 investment, the Dive Industry has done very, very well on me - as they have on most anyone who's reading this right now.

Trips to Bonaire (2), Egypt (1), Cozumel (1), Keys (1). Two full sets of gear... Yep, very well indeed.

The issue isn't high-acquisition costs, its inept retention practices. And to that, there are few industries that match diving in poorly handling their customers.

Alas, that's true too.

 

[Cacia]

personally, I think it is all the rules that turn many off.

It is a "nanny" hobby. Those other sports you named do not judge people for choosing to surf big dangerous waves or flip off snow banks upside down. Diving has a need to boss everyone around. Honestly, the most innovative people will reject that. Who needs to pay money for all that attitude? In diving, somebody always has something to say about why you are not a wreck diver, cave diver a "real" solo diver without somebody's approval and a card. WHAT other sport does this to this extent? I know lots of divers who flatly reject all that, and much of the stuff they think we must buy.

It is one big lecture after another, with diving. The industry is killing itself because nobody really wants to pay money for all the abuse, if you ask me.
It is getting harder and harder to not feel you are on some field trip for school kids. The scuba industry needs to lighten up, all the way around. People that believe in "live and let live" get a whiff of all this and just gravitate in the other direction to something else. I am pretty good at finding dive destinations where I can manuever for the freedom I seek, and having a boat or friends that have boats helps. Would I dive if I was paying for these commercial services, signing liabilty waivers, medical UNILATERAL pages of oaths, profiles set by somebody else, rules, rules, rules? No, I would not do it because it does not sound fun. It sounds miserable. Traveling around the world in my twenties, without much money I did not do it either. So, money or the lack of it has not affected my perspective on this. I have been diving for 35 years now and I always find quality, fun, self-motivated people and most of them are not into the mindset of the scuba industry where the attitude that you can seek what you wish to learn and train yourself to do the dives you desire to do is considered a sin.

My live and let live attitude extends to them and if they want to form an industry around all their compliance issues and make people pay hundreds of dollars to be spoon fed every step, then more power to them, but be realistic about the people you are "losing" in the process. More focus on fun and excitement without all the constant guilt trips about safety would improve the climate, IMO. (and that is the way diving used to be, btw) And still is in many places like the South Pacific unless Americans are in charge. I avoid American operators big time.

I am happy to pay, when I am getting something I want.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Very few of us, let alone non-divers can even name a living, professional diver. But there is no issue naming and recognizing professional golfers, skateboarders, surfers, bike riders and other leaders in the recreational pursuits that are competing for the same share-of-wallet as diving is.

Diving is not a competitive sport, (at least for most) No leagues, no Playoffs, no "Star Machine" so while I agree with much of what you've posted your analogy is a bit off.

That's not to say there are no "name" divers. Tiger Woods is trained Full Cave, did he make an appearance at DEMA? What about Tom Cruise? Would these folks create some media interest?

Don't get hung up on "dive shops" as the ones spending the $70 per diver (its DEMA, the industry association spending it) or "dive shops" as the ones solely benefiting from DEMA's investment. The dive industry is much, much more than the dive shop. (DEMA is the equipment manufacturer's association, not the dive shop's association.)

DEMA used to be the Dive Equipment Manufacturers Association.

What percentage of booths at DEMA would you guess represented Manufacturers?

Now it the Diving Equipment and Marketing Association, i.e. less emphasis on
Manufacturing and supposedly more on Marketing Diving.

$70 is a bargain for new customer acquisition. But with no retention plan, its just flushing cash.

No disagreement here.

Tobin

 

[royalediver]

I stated that Tom had lost his apartment not as a joke or for a laugh but to point out the man was under a major amount of stress. Please read my original post!!!!