DEMA lack of ETHICS

[ianr33]

This showed an amazing degree of pettiness, mean spirit, and lack of Ethics coupled with the udder stupidity

So that would be Farm Animal Stupid ?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Hey guys,

let's not trivialize the thread. Thanks in advance.

Unless of course we think that pulling a ticker off a model car is trivial in the first place ?

 

[The Chairman]

Unless of course we think that pulling a ticker off a model car is trivial in the first place ?

You've said it... now leave it be. There is no need to hijack the thread. Obviously, this is a much bigger deal to some.

The car in question was designed to fill a need and create advertising exposure. It is not owned by DEMA, but by Team Scuba. There is a need for our industry to reach out and garner NEW divers. It is hoped that this will provide exposure to the racing world to do just that. To that end, we need to stop the constant infighting that has marred our industry.

 

[Doc]

we need to stop the constant infighting that has marred our industry.

Anybody have a plan?

It's nothing more than it has ever been. It's about money. First, we all have to understand that 9,999 out of 10,000 people on SCUBABoard have no inkling as to the reality of what the DEMA convention really is. Draw the distinction, DEMA is not a dive show annual convention- it is a marketing association.

Look around, Local Dive Shops that "get along" are an extreme rarity. It is a vertical affliction, from the top on down: manufacturers, reps, cert agencies (and dive systems mocked as religions/lifestyles), LDS, instructors, students, dive location operators. There is simply no getting along. Not for a long time.

There is no LDS that is going to survive that is without a website, at least to describe the shop and services... shopping carts aside. Any survivable LDS had better be acquiring info and buying wholesale on line. The Manufacturers Reps of the past are gone.

There is no potential customer looking for gear and services that isn't on-line.

There is no survivable manufacturer that will cling to 2002 mentality of "we'll tell you how/when/how much to charge and where advertise" rather than asking..."How many cases did you need?" I sell it to you, I don't really care what you do with it. This whole restraint of trade thing is only institutionalized and semi-legal since the 1970's.

DEMA served a purpose. Back when there were two dive magazines and PADI was hand typing cert cards with an IBM Selectric, the world moved at a slower pace. We all were wide eyed in amazement when the LDS owner announced that he and the little woman were going to DEMA. Deeeeeeeeemaaaaaaaaaaahhhh The word alone sounded magical. And for the time, it was.

As with any such annual orgy of iron, rubber and beer- similar to any other Shriner's Convention, times have changed out from under the mega-convention industry. Aint nobody coming to Ohio to make the annual buy on dive gear when the bright lights of Vegas await. If you don't think that a tax deductable working trip to the center of high tech debauchery is a huge part of the draw, look at the convention industry. Take the beer and the dive gear out of it. Vegas is so much more than those plastic bags crammed full of brochures and the omnipresent cheap plastic cr@p giveway items. Glitz, glamor and... did I mention that "the old lady" stayed home this year to watch the store? She took a week off from her real job.....

CES moved from Chicago to Vegas. That was the big first shot of the losing battle. Chicago was there to do business. The business changed. Chicago couldn't offer what Vegas could. Mayor Daley blamed it costs and McCormick Place. In truth, there was nothing he could do. Once they have had a night out with those friendly gals from the LV Convention, Visitor and Hostess Bureau, well... you do the math. Vegas realized that conventions were dying if they were merely conventions. No need to record, chapter and verse, all the other diversions LV has to offer on a tax sheltered trip.

Remember, I'm not talking about Vegas, I am talking about the convention industry.

Now, take the next post 9/11 step. Fuel costs and economy. It used to be a cheap deal to get to Vegas and walk on cheap blue carpeting for four days. Now, Vegas is quite the high priced spread. The money that comes to Vegas stays in Vegas. Can you afford to be away from your retail LDS for that long?

Conventions have largely been replaced by the internet. No one wants to display at these shows. The only thing that makes it tolerable is the unspoken social aspect. And that, unfortunately, is where most similar annual gatherings have descended. There is nothing but the social aspect. 99% of what goes on at DEMA can (and will) be done on-line.

Now we're aware of a NASCAR-SCUBA marketing crossover. Does that nexus even make a blip on Bill Cline's Diving Industry data? Sailing and skiing used to be the hot connection, but NASCAR? It's off topic here, but it is food for thought. How desperate can things get? Are hot young girls in T-Shirts really so far off the mark? Works in my demographic, and if you look at the ads in the magazines, the manufacturers have discovered that "sex sells".

We are involved in a sport that is declining for many reasons. You can look at the symptoms, but they are not the causative disease. The economy (discretionary income) and recreational time (our accelerated lifestyles) have ganged up with some other well known survey nuggets: Diving is for nerds, it is too much info to learn, if I'm in paradise I want a Pina Colada and a tan, diving requires time to learn, diving requires storage space, diving is expensive gear and expensive travel. Truth or perception?

Need proof? A few years ago PADI (the master of perfect marketing) changed the whole deal from "Diving is Safe and Happy" to "Diving is kinda' risky-fun". They saw and reacted to what the target audience was really looking for. Adventure over humdrum. Some people have the resources and the agility to retarget the guns. Others either don't know or can't. Broad based target, the "typical" recreational diver, or the narrow focused niche market "black tech" model. Gotta go with the McDonalds one-size-fits-most approach. The 800 pound Gorilla likes it, they're paving the way, so lets walk in the path... or forge your own way.

Large national marketing organizations with annual conventions may have reached their declining years while we were drinking beer at the Decompression Party. Time to return to being what we need: a marketing association.

It's just my opinion, but I'm always right.

 

[Drewski]

How about some pictures of aforementioned BIMBOS ?? Lots of pictures!!

Sure! Borrowed from another thread and poster...

Man, I wish companies had reps like THAT at the trade shows I go to...

And, before you say it, NO, I wasn't talking about the guy...

 

[tedtim]

Hey guys,

let's not trivialize the thread. Thanks in advance.

Pete, while there is a valid beef made by the OP, it is interesting that it is their first and only post to SB. If they are indeed a new member of SB, they have chosen either not to read or respond further. Otherwise this is a sock puppet account (my money is on this). No wonder the responses are of the nature that they are.

Fear of retribution?

 

[Cacia]

Anybody have a plan?

It's nothing more than it has ever been. It's about money. First, we all have to understand that 9,999 out of 10,000 people on SCUBABoard have no inkling as to the reality of what the DEMA convention really is. Draw the distinction, DEMA is not a dive show annual convention- it is a marketing association.

Look around, Local Dive Shops that "get along" are an extreme rarity. It is a vertical affliction, from the top on down: manufacturers, reps, cert agencies (and dive systems mocked as religions/lifestyles), LDS, instructors, students, dive location operators. There is simply no getting along. Not for a long time.

There is no LDS that is going to survive that is without a website, at least to describe the shop and services... shopping carts aside. Any survivable LDS had better be acquiring info and buying wholesale on line. The Manufacturers Reps of the past are gone.

There is no potential customer looking for gear and services that isn't on-line.

There is no survivable manufacturer that will cling to 2002 mentality of "we'll tell you how/when/how much to charge and where advertise" rather than asking..."How many cases did you need?" I sell it to you, I don't really care what you do with it. This whole restraint of trade thing is only institutionalized and semi-legal since the 1970's.

DEMA served a purpose. Back when there were two dive magazines and PADI was hand typing cert cards with an IBM Selectric, the world moved at a slower pace. We all were wide eyed in amazement when the LDS owner announced that he and the little woman were going to DEMA. Deeeeeeeeemaaaaaaaaaaahhhh The word alone sounded magical. And for the time, it was.

As with any such annual orgy of iron, rubber and beer- similar to any other Shriner's Convention, times have changed out from under the mega-convention industry. Aint nobody coming to Ohio to make the annual buy on dive gear when the bright lights of Vegas await. If you don't think that a tax deductable working trip to the center of high tech debauchery is a huge part of the draw, look at the convention industry. Take the beer and the dive gear out of it. Vegas is so much more than those plastic bags crammed full of brochures and the omnipresent cheap plastic cr@p giveway items. Glitz, glamor and... did I mention that "the old lady" stayed home this year to watch the store? She took a week off from her real job.....

CES moved from Chicago to Vegas. That was the big first shot of the losing battle. Chicago was there to do business. The business changed. Chicago couldn't offer what Vegas could. Mayor Daley blamed it costs and McCormick Place. In truth, there was nothing he could do. Once they have had a night out with those friendly gals from the LV Convention, Visitor and Hostess Bureau, well... you do the math. Vegas realized that conventions were dying if they were merely conventions. No need to record, chapter and verse, all the other diversions LV has to offer on a tax sheltered trip.

Remember, I'm not talking about Vegas, I am talking about the convention industry.

Now, take the next post 9/11 step. Fuel costs and economy. It used to be a cheap deal to get to Vegas and walk on cheap blue carpeting for four days. Now, Vegas is quite the high priced spread. The money that comes to Vegas stays in Vegas. Can you afford to be away from your retail LDS for that long?

Conventions have largely been replaced by the internet. No one wants to display at these shows. The only thing that makes it tolerable is the unspoken social aspect. And that, unfortunately, is where most similar annual gatherings have descended. There is nothing but the social aspect. 99% of what goes on at DEMA can (and will) be done on-line.

Now we're aware of a NASCAR-SCUBA marketing crossover. Does that nexus even make a blip on Bill Cline's Diving Industry data? Sailing and skiing used to be the hot connection, but NASCAR? It's off topic here, but it is food for thought. How desperate can things get? Are hot young girls in T-Shirts really so far off the mark? Works in my demographic, and if you look at the ads in the magazines, the manufacturers have discovered that "sex sells".

We are involved in a sport that is declining for many reasons. You can look at the symptoms, but they are not the causative disease. The economy (discretionary income) and recreational time (our accelerated lifestyles) have ganged up with some other well known survey nuggets: Diving is for nerds, it is too much info to learn, if I'm in paradise I want a Pina Colada and a tan, diving requires time to learn, diving requires storage space, diving is expensive gear and expensive travel. Truth or perception?

Need proof? A few years ago PADI (the master of perfect marketing) changed the whole deal from "Diving is Safe and Happy" to "Diving is kinda' risky-fun". They saw and reacted to what the target audience was really looking for. Adventure over humdrum. Some people have the resources and the agility to retarget the guns. Others either don't know or can't. Broad based target, the "typical" recreational diver, or the narrow focused niche market "black tech" model. Gotta go with the McDonalds one-size-fits-most approach. The 800 pound Gorilla likes it, they're paving the way, so lets walk in the path... or forge your own way.

Large national marketing organizations with annual conventions may have reached their declining years while we were drinking beer at the Decompression Party. Time to return to being what we need: a marketing association.

It's just my opinion, but I'm always right.

Now, that is a really great post, RM.
Enjoyed that, thanks.

 

[Mo2vation]

It's just my opinion, but I'm always right.

Good stuff therem R-man. Really good stuff. Attending between 6 and 12 trade shows a year for the last 10 years all across the country I see the changes. Who's the brightstar that selected the National Housewares show to be at McCormick in January, anyway? :no Glad that's finally changed.

Its interesting to see the conventional thinking (and NASCAR thinking) of the target demo for new divers as the tight shirted, thrill-seeking, face pierced, vertical haired 20-somethings. Even funnier as NASCAR is biggest between the coasts - where the water isn't.

DEMA's own marketing 4 year survey (308,000 divers surveyed) and resulting data that is driving their new 2-year Diver Acquisition plan (being launched in 2008) doesn't support the conventional thinking at all. They are targeting quite a different demo than you see in the Pink gear-wearing MARES ads or the hunky smooth-chested types in the PADI materials.

And I agree with DEMA. Put a pile of snowboarding gear on the floor and a pile of scuba gear on the floor in front of one of these bariatas, its Snow Boarding that wins every time. The 20-somethings are not the target for new diver acquisition.

DEMA has it right with their new campaign. The manufacturers have been chasing the wrong demo for years. MTV it ain't.

---
Ken

 

[Randy43068]

More bimbo pix please.

 

[royalediver]

The info I got is that it will cost DEMA over $70 per diver if everything goes according to plan (which it never does). At an acquisition cost that high is it no wonder the industry is in trouble