Deep air is a continual debate, one thing that's not debatable is the fact that redundancy is a requirement for ANY kind of overhead regardless of virtual or not
Deep Diving on Air
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I would have to say things are a little more complicated than you indicate here, but it is hard to say for sure who is winning. I know that no one will be able to convince VDGM, and I for one am making no attempt to do so. He is not the audience for whom I write.Who is winning this deep air thread? The practice of diving impaired until you are conditioned crowd? Or let's put a proper amount of He in the ole cylinders or just stay on the couch group?
As I write, this thread has had over 7,000 views. I figure a fair number of them are intelligent people who might be tempted to dive beyond their level of training and experience. I hope they will weigh the arguments carefully and make intelligent decisions. For that to happen, I need to give them a chance by putting appropriate information out for them to consider.
In addition to the factual information about accepted safe diving practices I try to include in my posts, I keep hoping that VDGM will keep on posting. I want the intelligent readers to see his reasoning and logic and include that in their decision making process.
So who is winning? I don't know the numbers, but I have faith that silent but perceptive readers are learning everything they need to know.
If we are to really use "speeding" in relation to this thread, why not keep the "violations" in the same ballpark?
175/132 = x/100
x = 132.6%
y/55 = 132.6/100
y = 73 mph
But for the last two months the techspurt argument has been...
300/132 = x/100
x = 227.3%
y/55 = 227.3/100
y = 125 mph
So you think that because Opal & crew had tragedy on a "planned" 100cft/80cft/80cft, 320'/300'/250'(?), over a 700' hard bottom, then all air dives past 150' must be equally as dangerous?
Even if I were to ever "single tank" to 175', my tanks are 120cf and my initial location would be a 175' hard bottom. For the record, all my previous posts regarding my theoretical deep air "planning" have been 165' hard bottom (my dive scooter's published max operation depth), 120cft + 30cf pony. My pony usually has 32%, but w/ Suunto Viper that would not decrease any mandatory time.
With same Viper computer, I have hit 146' on an "air" 80 cft (stopping careless boob) with that multilevel dive then exceeding 45 minutes for both of us, and I have hit 138' on an "air" 100 cft with that multilevel dive lasting 60 minutes. The second one listed above showed "mandatory" 4 minute stop, which kind of means 1 minute deco to me (FAIP).
So, let's explore the speeding analogy a little more:
Back in 1974, a year after the first "oil crisis" in the USA, Colorado's typical Highway max speed decreased from 70 mph to 55 mph. In '75 or '76, I was driving my bug (stock '65 motor) on straight, sunny, divided, Hwy 50, with foot flat on floor (SBOP). Glancing in my mirror, Sgt. Johnson, of the CHP, was on my bumper. This most rigid of the local enforcers, also father of my sister's best friend and neighbor of ours up to a year earlier, did not have his lights flashing, but I knew "stopped on the shoulder" was the eventual outcome, so I signaled and stopped. He also signaled and stopped, and "then" turned on his lights.
Approaching my window, he asked incredulously "Steve, how fast were you going?" I meekly answered "about 71 sir." He shook his head and muttered that the tail wind did not seem strong enough, but that his speedometer agreed. He then proceeded to take me on a tour around my bug; pointing out a missing tailpipe, putting the right exhaust point inside the body dimensions (CO danger), the thin tread on the right front tire, and told me that a wobbly right rear wheel was the real reason he "caught up" to me from his last ticketing that I drove past 5 miles back. Yes, there had been a recent "hard landing" off the rack at my High School auto shop class.
I had a bug load of teenage boys with me, and the lessons we learned were that the "real safety" equipment was more important to Sgt. Johnson than some bureaucratic line in the sand. All of the occupants of that bug that day have violated speed regulations habitually for nearly 40 years, but all still walk, talk and drive today.
Back in 1974, a year after the first "oil crisis" in the USA, Colorado's typical Highway max speed decreased from 70 mph to 55 mph. In '75 or '76, I was driving my bug (stock '65 motor) on straight, sunny, divided, Hwy 50, with foot flat on floor (SBOP). Glancing in my mirror, Sgt. Johnson, of the CHP, was on my bumper. This most rigid of the local enforcers, also father of my sister's best friend and neighbor of ours up to a year earlier, did not have his lights flashing, but I knew "stopped on the shoulder" was the eventual outcome, so I signaled and stopped. He also signaled and stopped, and "then" turned on his lights.
Approaching my window, he asked incredulously "Steve, how fast were you going?" I meekly answered "about 71 sir." He shook his head and muttered that the tail wind did not seem strong enough, but that his speedometer agreed. He then proceeded to take me on a tour around my bug; pointing out a missing tailpipe, putting the right exhaust point inside the body dimensions (CO danger), the thin tread on the right front tire, and told me that a wobbly right rear wheel was the real reason he "caught up" to me from his last ticketing that I drove past 5 miles back. Yes, there had been a recent "hard landing" off the rack at my High School auto shop class.
I had a bug load of teenage boys with me, and the lessons we learned were that the "real safety" equipment was more important to Sgt. Johnson than some bureaucratic line in the sand. All of the occupants of that bug that day have violated speed regulations habitually for nearly 40 years, but all still walk, talk and drive today.
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I keep hoping he'll manage to put two coherent sentences together in the same post ... but perhaps that's just a demonstration of what repeated narcosis over a period of time can do to a person ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Kind of interesting to see which members most often seem not to adhere to this part of the TOS...
"Profane, racial, insulting or mean spirited language is simply not allowed here and this includes any sort of harassment or cyber bullying."
"Profane, racial, insulting or mean spirited language is simply not allowed here and this includes any sort of harassment or cyber bullying."
- Messages
- 99,308
- Reaction score
- 101,908
- Location
- On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
halemanō;6098574:Kind of interesting to see which members most often seem not to adhere to this part of the TOS...
"Profane, racial, insulting or mean spirited language is simply not allowed here and this includes any sort of harassment or cyber bullying."
Which ones would that be, Mr. Techspurt?
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Let me list some very, very popular Hawaii tourist recreational overhead dive sites where redundancy "other than your buddy" is practiced by less than 1%:
Tunnels, Sheraton Caverns, Shark's Cove, Five Caves, First and Second Cathedrals.
ANY time someone thinks their opinion is not debatable, rational intelligence seems debatable to me.
- Messages
- 99,308
- Reaction score
- 101,908
- Location
- On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
halemanō;6098604:Let me list some very, very popular Hawaii tourist recreational overhead dive sites where redundancy "other than your buddy" is practiced by less than 1%:
Tunnels, Sheraton Caverns, Shark's Cove, Five Caves, First and Second Cathedrals.
ANY time someone thinks their opinion is not debatable, rational intelligence seems debatable to me.
How many of those are deep dives ... even considering maximum distance out of the overhead?
In which ones would narcosis be a factor?
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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