Deep Diving on Air

[TSandM]

I think there is very little utility in trying to argue which component of the problem was primary. They made a bad gas plan (or no plan) and it depended on nothing going wrong, which in the face of narcosis, is an awfully optimistic assumption. One could argue that if they had either done the dive on a single tank with a less narcotic gas, or with an adequate gas supply to deal with being stupid at depth, no accident would have ensued. But we know from experience here in Puget Sound (a near-fatality) that what constitutes an "adequate gas supply" to deal with severe narcosis may not be definable.

Bottom line: Combine the two, and you are asking for problems.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Id say that having extra air would make ALL the difference when youre able to see a diver not ascend, pull him up and end up inflating his bc before you know youre going to drown because your tank is empty.
Thats a pretty damn clear testiment to me that more air would have been everything...

Didn't work for the guy who found DM candidate's body and later suffered his own accident ... he brought dual 100's with him, as well as a deco bottle. According to his later statements, he just got so narced he forgot to watch his gauge and ran out of gas ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Didn't work for the guy who found DM candidate's body and later suffered his own accident ... he brought dual 100's with him, as well as a deco bottle. According to his later statements, he just got so narced he forgot to watch his gauge and ran out of gas ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Yeah, the extra air might have caused him MORE trouble. If he ran low on a single tank, he might have been able to scramble up to the level of a deco stop and switch over to the deco bottle, much earlier and with less nitrogen load...My point is not to argue that single tanks should be used, but rather the solution to narcosis may not be more narcotic gas.

 

[Tigerman]

No, the solution would ideally be more, less narcotic gas. But saying more gas wouldnt help in an incident where the diver drowns from running out of air after noticing a diver is in problem and dragging him up and then inflating his bc when hes running out of air dont compute regardless.. Your odds is DEFINETLY better while narced than it is without gas wether or not youre narced in addition to the oog..

 

[Rich Keller]

I said they had a plan, not a very good one, but a plan..(pray that nothing happens and we will be OK)....narcosis was the root cause of the problem.. Attitude, extra air, equipment and training have very limited utility if you are narced out of your brain and loose the ability to think or function.

The root cause of the problem is they should not have been there to begin with. You guys are arguing over the details of a dive that never should have taken place.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Quick overview on the proper gas planning for Rock Bottom/Minimum Gas Reserve on a short ten minute tech dive to 300':
--->Figure 2200 litres needed for 10 min at 90m (300') for a Surface Consumption Rate of 22 L/min: 10min multiplied by 10 ATA depth multiplied by 22 L/min --that's equivalent to one ENTIRE 11 litre (AL80) tank; need around 6300 litres to get an Out-of-BackGas Buddy from 90m to the first deco stop at 21m, which would require another aluminium 11 litre stage bottle (AL80) of bottom mix together with at least double aluminium 11 litre backgas tanks of bottom mix for each teammate. This totals roughly 8800 litres of bottom mix for each of a three-man team. . .

Anyway the point is that this incident was a tragic misadventure in the grossest way. . .

"Tragedy is a tool for the living to gain wisdom --not a guide by which to live by. . ."
--Robert Kennedy

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Kevin great post on having a bit extra gas for a dive, unfortunately that is not what the majority will do for a Deep Air Dive from my experience of observing them on warm water trips. For the most part it is planned just before the dive so there is no bottles of gas or equipment to do so. This is why Divers that perform these dives can give there experience of doing these dives, to give a better picture in what can and cannot happen.

So far all that is learned from post from posters that are against is the accidents and fatality's, well that is in every type of diving as I pointed out, from OW class, team, solo, technical, rebreather, commercial, military, etc.

If a diver is not performing these Deep Air Dives there opinion is not worth anything at all. Now some that use to do these dives has posted and they are very useful in the outcome of to help the little traffic here on SB, that gets a chance to understand Deep Air Divers experience's.

Mr Rumbo's post was a very good incentive on 90m dive, A diver looks at that and can see why you would need that much gas, Yet they have done a bounce to lets say 140' and came right back to the 2atm in lets say 9 mins, they had an al80 with a start of 2900 psi and came back to the second atm and seen they now have 2000 psi. The majority of these dives are not done by an experienced Deep Air Diver like myself, they are done by New or Newer Divers. The newer Diver will see that they have a lot of gas in a dive profile I just mentioned and will go for a deeper dive cause of it.

Experienced Deep Air Divers that die from there dives actually know what there capability's are and they will try for a personal best, not all but some.

As Dump has pointed out and Dr Bill in his post is how to get to know what your narcosis level is. I experienced a Deep Air Dive for a personal best this past year with twin 100's pump up and 75% deco in case I herd a ship getting close as I hang on my inflatable and ride the current. It was to see how far my narcosis level is I do this once or maybe twice a year, and I do work up dives to prepare for this. Sure I feel bad when a an experienced diver gets bent or dies, It was there choice and with very little info for them to perform these dives they go on there past experience.

I have some great books on Deep Air Diving all very old of course and that how they dove deep back then.

 

[Peter Guy]

VDGM wrote what might be the most interesting thing he has ever written:

I have some great books on Deep Air Diving all very old of course and that how they dove deep back then.

[emphasis mine]

VDGM, do you think that, perhaps, the highlighted portion could be a clue to this controversy? Why is it, do you (and others) think that "the great books on Deep Air Diving [are] all very old?" Is it because, just perhaps, just maybe, THAT IT IS AN OUT OF DATE PRACTICE?

There are many activities that were once done but, due to technology, are no longer the norm or even considered appropriate. Maybe, just maybe, "Deep Air Diving" is one of those activities -- something that should be relegated to the museum of diving?

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Peter these are training books that taught everything in one book, the new ones have them split up and now you have to take a class for every thing.

Peter either post A Deep Air Dive experience or do not post, got it. Any thing else you post is just not useful at all.

 

[boulderjohn]

So far all that is learned from post from posters that are against is the accidents and fatality's, well that is in every type of diving as I pointed out, from OW class, team, solo, technical, rebreather, commercial, military, etc.

So you think that because all kinds of diving have a chance of a fatality, then they must all be equally as dangerous?

Is it OK to drive 120 MPH in a 55 MPH zone? After all, people do sometimes have accidents and die when traveling the speed limit, so the speed must not matter.