Deep Diving on Air

[boulderjohn]

Good to have you back in the thread, Halemano. Your contributions are so valuable.

By the way, we are still waiting for the specific examples for the accusation you made the last time you were here. I guess you might have forgotten about it, so I just wanted to remind you. I know you would not want to be accused of making things up.

There have been a number of SB members, or good friends / dive buddies of SB members, who have died recently diving beyond their training, yet often SB Staff has pretty much defended them and SB has not been sued over such "advocacy" of unsafe diving practices.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

How many of those are deep dives ... even considering maximum distance out of the overhead?

In which ones would narcosis be a factor?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, I quoted the post I was directly typing to. That post, that I quoted in it's entirety, did start with...

Deep air is a continual debate ...

But for those of us with moderate reading comprehension, the operative part of said quote that I typed directly to would seem to be ...

one thing that's not debatable is the fact that redundancy is a requirement for ANY kind of overhead regardless of virtual or not

CaveMD did not type "One thing that is not debatable is the fact that, for deep air dives with possible narcosis problems, redundancy is a requirement for ANY overhead regardless of virtual or not."

If CaveMD had typed "One thing that is not debatable is the fact that, for deep air dives with possible narcosis problems, redundancy is a requirement for ANY overhead regardless of virtual or not" my rebuttal post would have been worded directly at that typing.

 

[Rich Keller]

There are old divers and there bold divers but there are VERY few old & bold divers. In my opinion the very few who fit in both categories have just been lucky not smart. The odds are not with them, sooner rather then later the house always wins.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Good to have you back in the thread, Halemano. Your contributions are so valuable.

By the way, we are still waiting for the specific examples for the accusation you made the last time you were here. I guess you might have forgotten about it, so I just wanted to remind you. I know you would not want to be accused of making things up.

There have been a number of SB members, or good friends / dive buddies of SB members, who have died recently diving beyond their training, yet often SB Staff has pretty much defended them and SB has not been sued over such "advocacy" of unsafe diving practices.

Ahhh, I really feel the love...

I do hope that someone involved in the recovery shares some information with us as to what happened. If an exploration diver gets stuck, that's one thing, but if they get lost, I want to know how that could happen, so I can avoid whatever it was.

I'm sorry about her death, but in a way, glad to hear that it was simply as a result of the risks she knowingly took to do the kind of diving she was doing.

There are a lot of things that are appealing about caves -- clear water, beautiful formations, fossils -- but for someone like Agnes, I think the ultimate appeal is that you have an opportunity to go where no one, no one at all has ever been before. There are not many places in earth about which you can say that, and it's a very powerful lure for some folks.

My question: What is it about diving in caves that is so alluring that some folks are willing to do what this woman did? By anyone's measure, it seemed like an unacceptably high risk to take.

As attributed to Tom Mount:

Either you're one of us and you get it, or you aren't and you don't.

Mike, thank you for the first hand account of events. I'm sure it was difficult to put into words all that happened during this very sad event with no closure. The solace comes in knowing that the diver was doing what he was passionate about until the end. Thanks to the search teams involved. The self-less support from the dive community when something happens to "one-of-us" is heartwarming.

I too was on a dive trip with him when he went to over 200ft on two dives. This was almost a year ago. Knowing him I doubt his equipment was not suited to this type of diving.

Just from a couple threads ...

and the Tom Mount quote was from the moderator of record for that thread ...

 

[boulderjohn]

Ahhh, I really feel the love...

Just from a couple threads ...

and the Tom Mount quote was from the moderator of record for that thread ...

Interesting choice.

Agnes was not diving beyond her training, but she did was something that just about everybody on the thread said was foolish. I don't recall anyone at any time defending the action she took that led to her death. I don't see a single quote in the list that defended her actions.

This was not the first time she did something that drew criticism, and her actions before that were not defended, either. She was a very nice woman who made mistakes, including one final one. People spoke lovingly of her as a person, but they did not in any way defend her actions.

As for the Tom Mount quote, all that did was say why people dive in caves. It does not defend people diving outside of their training.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Interesting choice.

Agnes was not diving beyond her training, but she did was something that just about everybody on the thread said was foolish. I don't recall anyone at any time defending the action she took that led to her death. I don't see a single quote in the list that defended her actions.

This was not the first time she did something that drew criticism, and her actions before that were not defended, either. She was a very nice woman who made mistakes, including one final one. People spoke lovingly of her as a person, but they did not in any way defend her actions.

As for the Tom Mount quote, all that did was say why people dive in caves. It does not defend people diving outside of their training.

Well, in your opinion Agnes was not diving beyond her training, but for me to understand your opinion you will have to provide links to the cave training that trains one to change the plan, abandon redundancy and squirm through a significant restriction, solo.

In my post you call an accusation I typed "yet often SB Staff has pretty much defended them" - which is not exactly "defended their actions" and again I will point out that in your opinion you don't see a single quote defending her actions, while in my opinion those quotes do include defense of actions.

As for the Tom Mount quote, it was used by the MOD of record to answer this question;

"What is it about diving in caves that is so alluring that some folks are willing to do what this woman did?"

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, I quoted the post I was directly typing to. That post, that I quoted in it's entirety, did start with...

But for those of us with moderate reading comprehension, the operative part of said quote that I typed directly to would seem to be ...

CaveMD did not type "One thing that is not debatable is the fact that, for deep air dives with possible narcosis problems, redundancy is a requirement for ANY overhead regardless of virtual or not."

If CaveMD had typed "One thing that is not debatable is the fact that, for deep air dives with possible narcosis problems, redundancy is a requirement for ANY overhead regardless of virtual or not" my rebuttal post would have been worded directly at that typing.

You didn't answer my questions.


As I recall, Five Caves is quite shallow, and the caves quite small.

What does that have to do with deep air ... or even overhead? You can practically freedive them ... I daresay some people do.

What do any of those dive sites you named have to do with the topic at hand?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[VooDooGasMan]

NWG either post a Deep Air Dive experience or do not post, got it. Anything else you post is just not useful at all.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

NWG either post a Deep Air Dive experience or do not post, got it. Anything else you post is just not useful at all.

Sorry VD ... you don't get to dictate who can post on a public forum.

And your pal Hal is posting about 30-foot cavern dives in Hawaii ... why don't you hold him to the same standard?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Sorry VD ... you don't get to dictate who can post on a public forum.

And your pal Hal is posting about 30-foot cavern dives in Hawaii ... why don't you hold him to the same standard?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Perhaps VDGM has adequate reading comprehension to see that his cyber-buddy hale is trying to keep the thread on topic even while typing about non topic dive sites.

Perhaps I'm posting about 30-foot cavern dives in Hawaii; perhaps not.

Perhaps I should always answer all of NW's silly Q's ...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ad...advanced-recreational-cavern-cave-diving.html